Ep. 1: The Essence of Resiliency w/ Ashley J. Hobbs

• Transcript

  [00:00:00] Ashley Hobbs: So the blessing of working at Essence was because of the team that I worked with, we were all learning at like lightning speed, but there wasn't a whole lot of time to like sit in it because as quickly as I was thinking like, Oh my God, there's so much I need to learn. There was something else I had to do in order to learn the thing.

  [00:00:19] Sidney Evans: Tune in as we give flowers to black men and women making waves in the audio industry. I'm your host Sydney Evans. And this is beyond the threshold.

  [00:00:42] Welcome ladies and gentlemen to beyond the threshold. I'm your host, Sidney Evans and award winning audio editor and producer for those. Who don't know this show is dedicated to interviewing black men and women working in the audio industry while highlighting the lessons and experiences it takes to achieve success in the field.

  [00:01:02] I will introduce our guests shortly, but first and foremost, I just want to say, I can't believe I'm really here. This is the first official episode. Um, hopefully you have listened to episode zero and the teaser, which I have already released, where you can get more familiar with the concept and the premise from the show, from my perspective, as well as a little bit about my background.

  [00:01:26] But for the first time today, you'll be hearing the voice of someone else. We're going to have a great interview in store. We're going to get into the nitty gritty, but just thank everybody for listening. And. Hope you continue to support and very grateful to have you all. So to introduce our guest, just to give a brief bio, she is a three time in a double ACP image award winning podcast, producer, writer, narrator, and voiceover.

  [00:01:56] She's produced with DCP entertainment essence. Warner Music Group, Interval Presents, Spotify, and more. She currently leads production on shows like Holding Court with Ebony K. Williams, which was the winner of the 2024 NAACP Image Award for Outstanding News and Information Podcast, as well as the Tour Ratio.

  [00:02:18] Her short fiction has been published with Midnight and Indingo, and she most recently narrated Delaina R. A. Dameron's literary debut, Redwood Court. Not only did she start out as a colleague, but she has turned into a friend of mine, and I was thrilled when she agreed to come onto the show. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce to you all Ashley J.

  [00:02:41] Hobbs. Welcome to the show. Welcome. Welcome. 

  [00:02:43] Ashley Hobbs: Hey, thank you. Thank you for inviting me, Sidney. This is dope what you're doing. 

  [00:02:47] Sidney Evans: I appreciate it. We've been connected for some time and it looked like there were going to be moments where we potentially had the opportunity to work together. It hasn't happened quite yet.

  [00:02:58] So it seems like this was just the perfect moment for us to really get into the nitty gritty of things and collaborate and do something together. So we're just going to jump right into it. As I mentioned, I've known her for quite a few years. I'm more familiar with the stuff she has done more recently, but I do not know too much about her background.

  [00:03:17] So Ashley, if you could just share that you know, where you grew up, where you're from, like what was young Ashley, like where we are, where we are, your passions, you know, in interest at a young age I'm curious to know, I'm sure everyone else is as well. 

  [00:03:31] Ashley Hobbs: Yeah man So yeah, I grew up in Central Jersey in a town called Piscataway, which is, if anybody's familiar with New Jersey, you know, like Rutgers University has their biggest campus is right in Piscataway slash New Brunswick area.

  [00:03:46] So I grew up there. There were different phases in my life, right? So there was a phase where I wanted to be an R& B singer because, you know, I was listening to the people at the time, right? So it was Whitney Houston, Mary J. Blige, Mariah Carey, all of them. And then. I wanted to be a firefighter for a smooth minute.

  [00:04:04] You want it to be a ballerina. It was like all these different things. Like, I don't know. It was just like random things. Once you saw it, then you're like, Oh, I think I'm interested in that. You know, like I saw the 96 Olympics and I saw how the U S a team. truly brought home like all the gold medals. And I was like, I want to be a gymnast.

  [00:04:22] That lasted for like a couple of summers, but you know, it was, it was a thing that I did as a kid, but I think the most enduring thing was always like being a writer. I didn't know what it meant to be a producer or anything like that at the time. I just knew that I could like write stories or put stories together some sort of way.

  [00:04:40] And then that started to evolve. through the years. I always sort of like wrote little short stories and stuff. A lot of them I didn't finish. I didn't start actually finishing my writing until I got older in my 30s, but I was always writing. And then it evolved into actually like figuring out what that looks like in terms of like content production and then audio production a few years ago when I started working with Essence.

  [00:05:03] Sidney Evans: Okay. So I think the curiosity you had just for, you know, exploring those different things is like a great. Mindset to have, I know a lot of when people, the kids are younger, they're into so many things and want to try so many things. And unfortunately a lot of parents kind of like suppress that and try to like reel it in and I think as a kid, like you kind of got to just let them go and just try and explore things.

  [00:05:27] So It's good that you, you know, it doesn't seem like you had anyone who tried to like eliminate, eliminate that from you because I feel like a lot of, a lot, you know, when that happens you don't end up honestly doing the thing that you love to do. You kind of just go with what people say are more practical and you kind of kill like those creative juices and that creative energy.

  [00:05:48] So I'm glad that was not the case with you. 

  [00:05:51] Ashley Hobbs: It actually kind of was the case. So a part of my growing up was I was raised in like the Pentecostal church, apostolic church, whatever, which dependent, I mean, no, not depending, like it is a very strict denomination of Christianity. And so there was a lot of things like, even as a child, like I was very interested in movies and you know, TV and all of that wanted to be an actor, all that kind of stuff.

  [00:06:15] And It was always like, Oh, like that's bad. That's a sin. Right. And so, or like Hollywood or Broadway, all of that. It's like the devil's playground, like those sorts of messages. Right. And so reading was fine. And I could write all I wanted, but to actually start to go after opportunities when I got older.

  [00:06:34] It was difficult at first until my family left the church that we were in. And that wasn't until I was 30.

  [00:06:41] Sidney Evans: Okay. 

  [00:06:42] Ashley Hobbs: And I'm now 38. So over this span of eight years, I've been able, I've been able to become like this creative person who's like producing podcasts and being a voice artist. And like, you know what I mean?

  [00:06:55] Like I performed a monologue on stage last year, like all these things happen in a span of eight years. So it's like, All this arrested development. And then in eight years of this, this like creative growth. 

  [00:07:07] Sidney Evans: Okay. So we're, we're definitely going to focus more on the, the eight year period a little later in the episode, but I'm just curious as to like, so when the first thing Within the first 30 years, like, what was the first, like, thing you pursued or you decided to, like, do as a, to, like, provide for yourself, like, once you became an adult?

  [00:07:26] Ashley Hobbs: So I went to a women's college down kind of close to the Jersey Shore. And I remember I was part of a group called WILD, which was the Women in Leadership Development Program. Like, so all of undergrad, I was part of that program and I was really active. And so then the provost of the college said to me, like, you know, you should stay, get your master's degree and be a grad assistant that runs the women in leadership development program.

  [00:07:51] And because I didn't necessarily want to go home right away, cause I wasn't sure what I would do. I stayed, got a free master's in business administration. I wasn't even interested in, in an MBA, but I was like, I need to, you know, figure some other things out. So that grad assistantship, I think was like my first sort of like, okay, I guess I could do this.

  [00:08:11] This is something that my family will understand. It's not too far left and yeah, I don't have, you know what I mean? I have to do all this explanation. And so when I was finished with the program with running the program and getting my MBA, well, first of all, it was also a smart move for me because when I graduated, I graduated in 2008.

  [00:08:29] the bubble burst and all the things and it was no jobs, blah, blah, blah. So I was like, I might as well just stay and get another degree because there's nothing out there. So when I finished the MBA program, it still took a little while for me to find a job. And it was so funny because people were like, Oh, you have an MBA.

  [00:08:45] You're going to find a job making 60, 000 right out of school. No problem. That was not the case. After that, it took me a couple of years to find a job. I was an adjunct professor. For a while I taught developmental English at a local community college. Oh man, then I was an executive assistant to a dean at that same community college.

  [00:09:07] So these are all things in like academia that, you know, my family is not going to question. I'm making decent money. at home. I'm not going to New York and L. A. And all the place, you know what I mean? But I got fired from the executive assistant job because I was, I was not doing my job. 

  [00:09:22] Sidney Evans: You was not built for that.

  [00:09:23] Ashley Hobbs: I wasn't. I said, like, of the different times I got fired, I deserve that one because I was just on Facebook. I'm not even gonna hold you like I was on Facebook. I just was not into being an executive assistant. And I just, you know how you just know you don't fit someplace and you're trying to make yourself fit, but it just doesn't work.

  [00:09:38] Mm hmm. From there, I don't even know, I was like Googling trying to find places that like were doing work with Black women in any kind of way, shape, or form. And I ended up working at a non profit in, in Crown Heights, Brooklyn. I did that for like a year and a half, left that, then I worked at Bloomingdale's.

  [00:09:57] It was, I was all over the place. I was all over the place. Then after Bloomingdale's, I moved to DC and I worked at an education tech company for a little less than a year. Now that one I got fired from and there was no, literally no just cause because like all the students were, I had rave reviews from all my students and it was just like, no explanation.

  [00:10:17] And then that led me to, you know, I was depressed for like two weeks. I didn't like really leave my apartment because I'm like, I moved down here and now I don't have income except, you know, unemployment, but thankfully, like my parents helped me out. You know, like my car note, helping me to make rent and all that.

  [00:10:34] And I just felt like that was this, this was the, this was the moment I feel like was very defining for me. I don't think I would be, I don't think that I would have been able to do all the things that I've done to date right over these last eight years that we talked about earlier. If I didn't make the choice that I did in 2018 when I got fired from that job, because I was like, I'm going to use what little money I have and some credit cards and I'm going to try the things, right?

  [00:10:59] It just kept coming to me, like production kept coming to me and I was like, I got to figure this out. So I was like, let me see if I like live event production. So I volunteered at the American black film festival down in Miami, barely had the money to go. Right. I didn't have money for the first night, so I slept in the airport the first night.

  [00:11:19] And then the next couple of nights, I slept in a hotel room with like three other girls, so we didn't even know each other. And I worked the event. It was cool. You know, I met a lot of really great people, learned a whole lot about the film industry, but I realized like live event production is not for me.

  [00:11:34] Right. But I'm glad that I had that experience, 

  [00:11:36] Sidney Evans: but the seed was already planted. 

  [00:11:38] Ashley Hobbs: I was like, there's something in this kind of space. It's just not this thing. Right. And I remember an old sermon from like TD Jakes. And he said he was talking to his son cause he was, his son was about to go to school, I think for music or whatever.

  [00:11:55] He, I think he asked his son, like, why are you not, you don't seem like you're excited or whatever. And his son was like, in so many words, his son was saying like, I'm not sure if this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And I don't want you and mom to waste your money. TDJ said to his son, if this isn't the thing, it'll be the thing that leads to the thing.

  [00:12:11] Right? And so I feel like that's what was happening with me was like, live event production wasn't the thing, but it was one of the things that led to the thing. And so came back to DC, signed up for a television production class at the local like TV station. Mm hmm. And then I forgot that I had applied for an advertising production fellowship in New York city.

  [00:12:33] I got that at the same time. So Tuesday nights, 

  [00:12:39] Sidney Evans: So you're doing both. Everybody has a story and, and, and the lead, you know, bridges that they had to cross and, and, and moments, but I feel like we still kind of early on in the story, you done, you done, you done went through some stuff. 

  [00:12:52] Ashley Hobbs: No, for real. Cause I was like, I want to do both.

  [00:12:57] And I was like, I have the time because I'm, I done got fired. I don't have a full time job now. So Tuesday nights, I was in DC at my TV production class. Then either Tuesday night after the class or Wednesday morning, I would drive home to Jersey, take a quick nap and then take the train into the city to gray advertising and then go, you know, like do that whole thing.

  [00:13:20] And then at some point in the week, I would drive back to DC. And I did that. I think it was eight weeks. I had to do that. And I look back on it now and I'm like, bro, how did you have the energy? Like, that's crazy. That's really crazy. 

  [00:13:32] Sidney Evans: I was just, that was going to be, that was like, what was in my head. It was like, when you're going through it, you're like, yo, I'm crazy.

  [00:13:38] But then you look back, you're like, yeah, it was still crazy. But it was a level of appreciation and great. Like I kind of did what I had to do. 

  [00:13:46] Ashley Hobbs: Yeah. 

  [00:13:47] Sidney Evans: To make it honestly. 

  [00:13:49] Ashley Hobbs: Yeah. And I mean, like, again, I learned a whole lot from those two experiences. I definitely knew that advertising production wasn't from, for me, but I gleaned so many things that actually ended up helping me in my writing, help me in content production, even for when I started working at essence, because when I started working at essence.

  [00:14:11] My title was digital production, but it was understood that it was the podcast network. It ended up that I started writing articles for essence. com. So it's like things that I learned in the advertising fellowship totally applied to how I wrote those articles and like SEO and like all these different things that I never would have thought about before.

  [00:14:31] Sidney Evans: So basically like the things that you tried and weren't necessarily right on par with what you wanted to be doing, ultimately did end up being very helpful down the line for you. 

  [00:14:44] Ashley Hobbs: Yep. Yep, exactly that. So, yeah, I mean, I did that. I ended up having to move home almost, I think it was like a year to the date that I had moved to D.

  [00:14:53] C. About two and a half, three weeks later, I ended up having emergency surgery. Nobody knew I was going to have to have surgery. So I was down for like like a month and a half, I think it, and it was like, actually really bad. Like I was on a walker, then I had a cane. It was just like a whole thing. And I was like, well, dang, this is messing me up because now my unemployment had run out.

  [00:15:15] I'm back at home. I have bills that I have to pay. And I don't have any income. And I forgot that earlier in that summer I had applied for I forgot what my title was, but there was a playhouse in New Brunswick where people came and did stage plays and I applied to be a ticket taker there. And literally like a few weeks after my surgery, when I was like, I was still on a cane.

  [00:15:42] But I was like, I was able to like walk upright and all that kind of stuff. Like it wasn't, it wasn't too bad. They reached out to me and, you know, wanted an interview. So I remember I had my friend drive me over there and I was like, I gotta leave my cane in your car cause I need, I don't need them to say it.

  [00:15:55] Like, I can't have this job. And it was like, it was something like, I don't even know if it was 12 an hour. Right. But I was like, I just need something that's going to keep me above water financially. So even if I have to pay the bare minimums on everything, At least I'm not getting behind and then the other part about it too, not to make this too long, but like the other part about it too was this was a job where I could sit down.

  [00:16:16] Like I didn't have to be standing and moving around and all these things. And so I, cause I had had surgery on my stomach. And I, and I was thinking about it. I was like, I need a job where I can like, where my body can heal and I don't have to be doing a whole bunch of like strenuous work so that eventually I can start applying to like production jobs in the city, this, that, and the third.

  [00:16:34] So that's what ended up happening. I ended up working that job. I learned, again, I learned so much from the playwright. So much from watching the plays, so much from watching the crew come in and set up the sets and all that kind of, I learned so freakin much. And then five months to six months later, a friend of mine was like, Hey, I saw that you had posted on Instagram you were looking for a production work this and a third.

  [00:17:00] Do you want to be my associate producer for Essence in a couple weeks? Cause I may not be able to make it, whatever. So long story short, I went to Brooklyn. That was the day they had Alicia Keys cover shoot. This was 2019. The connections I made that day, I want to say that it was either April or May of 2019.

  [00:17:19] The connections I made that day got me a full time job at Essence by July 1st of the same year. And then that was like truly the start of. My production journey. 

  [00:17:30] Sidney Evans: That's, that's, that's, like I said, that's a lot. But you know, it's, it's I think it's a lesson to like I said, just, you kind of do what you gotta do to get to where you want to go and.

  [00:17:42] Also into like, if you, if you think you want to do pursue something and you try it and it, like I said, it's not exactly on par. I feel like a lot of people would just, okay. You'd like you do the live event production. It's not for you. It's like, Oh, well. It's not immediate. Let me go do something that, but you didn't, you knew it was, it was still within that realm, but you maybe just had to pivot a little bit.

  [00:18:06] And I went through similar experiences as well. 

  [00:18:10] Ashley Hobbs: But like, did you ever have like a moment where you, where you did think like, well, maybe Maybe this isn't for me. 

  [00:18:17] Sidney Evans: Of course. 

  [00:18:17] Ashley Hobbs: Like at all because like I'm trying to remember if I felt that way. I think the only times I might have felt that way is if I felt like the money wasn't coming quick enough.

  [00:18:26] Sidney Evans: Yeah. I mean, I mean, I, I, I definitely went through that. And I was going to say just a little bit later for the show, but like, All right. So before we kind of get to the, to the essence stuff and you're building upon that, I feel like this is since you just brought it up as to like, do you feel like, The work we do in the audio and just the medium in general is like extremely undervalued.

  [00:18:53] But when, if you go, go to an event and there's no music, like there's no, the energy is gone. If you watch a movie and there's no soundtrack, there's no special effects, like it's flat, like to you, like there is a story, but you don't feel it. You're not connected to it. So just, you know, in your experience working in the industry, like do you, the, the, what people are willing to pay for, you know engineers or, you know, let's say making a short film was like, you'd want all the top camera equipment, whatever, but you throw peanuts at, you know, the budget for the sound.

  [00:19:32] And then when you're, when you're, you're, you're, your film is, it doesn't connect. You're like, what happened? Like you didn't check all the boxes. You didn't value what you were supposed to value. So do you feel like. The audio medium and the people that work in the industry are undervalued in a general sense.

  [00:19:48] Ashley Hobbs: I would say, I would say yes. In, in, in like a majority of the spaces. Yes. It's undervalued. It can all, it can almost be intimidating. Cause it's like, well, man, if I want to stay in this, then maybe I should lower my rates a little bit just so I, you know what I mean? Like, and then it's like, but man, I have all these years of experience and this stuff takes time.

  [00:20:09] It does. It takes time. Like me as a producer, and it's so funny because people are like, well, what does a producer do? And I was like, well, it depends on the producer you ask. Right. So 

  [00:20:17] Sidney Evans: I'm glad you said that too, because that's another question I was going to get you. I work in the industry and I've had to find myself trying to really hone in and narrow like what in the most simplest form, if I was to describe it to someone, like what do they do?

  [00:20:33] So from your, from your experience and your perspective, like in the most simple way possible. A producer does. 

  [00:20:42] Ashley Hobbs: I can't remember who we heard say this, but it was while I was at essence because I remember me and my executive producer at the time, Tiffany Ashton. She's now like, I think, like global director over at a cast now.

  [00:20:55] But we were both in the room and someone said something like I'm an organizer of chaos. And Tiffany was like, I'm going to use that because that's exactly what we do as producers. Like we organize the chaos. And I, yeah, I think like in a very like simple way, that's what a producer does. But I think like, depending on what your skillset is, like there are some producers, like how I was early on, I didn't touch any of the engineering or editing.

  [00:21:22] All I did was the pre production. I like, you know, I was on the recording to make sure it went well. And like communicating with the host of the show or whatever to make sure that they're getting all the things they need to get. 

  [00:21:34] Sidney Evans: Sticking to the script. 

  [00:21:35] Ashley Hobbs: Right. Writing the script for them. Right. Doing the edit notes and working closely with the engineer and the editor and stuff.

  [00:21:40] Then uploading the episode. Writing all the copy for the episode. Like, all the, and then keeping us on our schedule for however long the season is going to be. Talent booking, finding talent, keeping up with them, getting them signed releases, making sure they have everything they need for like their equipment and you know, all of that stuff.

  [00:21:59] So, but then there are producers who do everything, which I'm just like, God bless you. You know what I mean? Like I always tell people, like when I'm up for a role or a gig or whatever, I'm like, look, I'm a rough cut editor. That is not my full ministry. So I just want you to know that upfront, because if you're looking for somebody who both edits and produces and you trying to get them for the price of one, you're not going to get that with me.

  [00:22:25] Sidney Evans: And even if you, and even if you could do it. You know what, you know what their budget is and that budget is saying you need to produce and don't do anything technical, then that's what you do. But if the, if the, if, you know, the amount of what you'd be doing, if you're going to be compensated for it, and you have the skill set.

  [00:22:45] You, you know, as well as I know that they're going to hire one person to do three different people roles. They'll do it if you let them. So you got to draw that line in the sand. 

  [00:22:54] Yeah. And I, and another point to all of that, including like, you know, how undervalued audio professionals are, what we started to see in like, I would say like, you know, like 2019, cause that's when I came in.

  [00:23:10] So that's when I really started to see it might've started earlier than that. But like 2019, 2020, the top of 2021, it was all of these Hollywood executives coming in and running audio production divisions or audio houses podcast divisions and everything, and they're running it like it's Hollywood.

  [00:23:28] And I'm like, that's not. That's not what, you know what I mean? Like making podcasts, it's not the same thing. And I don't understand all the ins and outs of all the business and, you know, whatever, but I do believe that some of that is part of the reason why it's so hunger games right now in podcasting, you know, because all these people came in, they're throwing millions and billions of dollars and they don't know what they're doing with it.

  [00:23:55] Right. You know, they're putting it in the wrong places. They're not paying the people who are doing the most of the work. They're not paying them fairly, you know, so. 

  [00:24:05] So when you started working for essence and I always like to kind of relate things back to my experience and see if, if, you know, it's a consistent across the board.

  [00:24:14] Like when I started getting my first, like, okay, like this is my first, like, this is, this is real stuff. Like this is like top tier production stuff and you, you have the skillset, but then you quickly realize like, There's a moment where you're like, I can do it, but I'm not as good as I thought I was think you're good.

  [00:24:35] And there's a moment where it's like, okay, once you, once you get surrounded by other people who are your love, he was like, okay, I'm, I belong in the room, but I'm not to that level. So like, when you start working for essence, whereas there, and it even might not be the. The skill set is just like the pace at which things go.

  [00:24:51] Like, yeah, I can, you know, I can edit, but if they need me to bang out something in amount of time and I'm like, Oh man, I can edit, but I can't edit that fast. So. I might have to pull an all nighter to get it done and they might not know that like you kind of try to have to get up to par with the speed and the efficiency of, of how they do things on that level.

  [00:25:09] So is that something you experienced? 

  [00:25:11] Ashley Hobbs: Yeah, I would say so the blessing of working at Essence was, and it's so funny because like, it was one of the things that I always wanted to do. I wanted to be a writer for the actual magazine and it ended up that I became a producer for their short lived network.

  [00:25:24] But working there. Because of the team that I worked with, we were all learning in real time. Our executive producer, Tiffany, she had produced podcasts and stuff, but I don't, if I'm not mistaken, I don't think that she had ever like helmed an entire network. So we, it was, it was, Four shows that were already built, and then I came on to help build the fifth show, which was one for like Gen Z, or whatever the case is.

  [00:25:52] And we were all learning at like lightning speed. So it would be like, from the time I hit the door, say I got there at 10 o'clock, 10. 30, We were working nonstop. Sometimes we truly did forget to eat because we were working nonstop. We had to record this. We had to go set up for that. We're making sure that the newsletter went out, right.

  [00:26:11] Cause we were doing some of the digital content. I had to hurry up and write an article to go with this that could go on the. com. And there was a lot of grace for like mistakes. And I definitely did feel like, oh, wow, there's so much I need to learn, but there wasn't a whole lot of time to like sit in it because.

  [00:26:29] As quickly as I was thinking like, Oh my god, there's so much I need to learn. There was something else I had to do in order to learn the thing. So, it was I was there from July 2018 2019 to I think October 2020 is when we all got furloughed, you know, after like the pandemic hit and stuff like that. And yeah, there were, there was, I mean, one of the main things that I realized that I did not know how to do until I got there and I learned was I was not good at juggling multiple things at once and like dividing up my time.

  [00:27:03] And I'm like, if I'm going to be a good producer, I have got to figure this out. And that was the perfect place to learn it because I was working with people who did, who handled me gently, like, they weren't dictators, you know what I mean? And I'm, I'm still friends with those people to this day. But yeah, yeah, I've, I've felt that, but I didn't have time to like, see it.

  [00:27:24] Sit in it. You know? 

  [00:27:26] Sidney Evans: Okay. So you had, you had, you had that experience with essence. So like doing like cause you made a couple of references to like, yeah, I work with this person and now here and I work now, you know, I've worked with that person and now they're now over there. What did that experience at Essence teach you about, like, like building and maintaining connections?

  [00:27:47] Can you just speak a little bit about, you know, building connections, not burning bridges with people, and then staying in contact with people and just kind of Like continue to nurture those relationships and stay connected with people as, as y'all, you know, go y'all separate ways. 

  [00:28:05] Ashley Hobbs: Yeah. Like, like I said, Essence was like really like a blessing for me because the team that I worked with was so tight knit.

  [00:28:12] And so I think one of the things that I learned about like building relationships was like, let it be genuine. Working on that team at Essence was the first time I felt like. Man, wherever my executive producer goes, I'm gonna go with her. Cause like, I trust her that much. If she's working till eight o'clock, I'm gonna work till eight o'clock.

  [00:28:31] Because she was just that like, diligent and like, I don't know. When you meet really genuine, good hearted people who are about their business, it make, it like, makes you want to be. that as well. It adds fuel to the fire that you might already have, right? And so that's how I felt about all of the people. I want to say, what is it like four or five of us, but like six of us still keeping contact to this day.

  [00:28:59] And if it wasn't a genuine relationship, it would have, you know, fallen off. Because I've had trouble with like the whole idea of networking. And I think that it's evolved a lot over time because when I was younger and just coming out of college and stuff, it was very much like, here's my business card.

  [00:29:14] We should get lunch sometime. And I'm like, this does not feel natural to me. This is weird, you know? But one thing I can say about networking and building relationships and maintaining them is To develop a natural curiosity about other people, like the more that I'm curious about other people and what they're doing, and I get my mind off of what I need and what I want, what I want, and what I want.

  [00:29:38] I can see possibilities and I can learn from people and I can learn like, Oh, well, I never thought about this. Or Hey, you need somebody to do XYZ. Even if I can't do it, I know somebody who can. You know what I mean? Like connecting each other. I feel like maintaining relationships is not just about like keeping somebody close so that you could potentially get something from them at some point.

  [00:30:01] It's like, how can I help? Or what, like what's up with you? Like what's been going on? What are you into these days? Like, I'm genuinely interested in you as a person. And it doesn't mean you talk every day all the time. Like some people I talk to every few months, but you know that that connection is solid and it's there.

  [00:30:18] And then I'll be honest with you, there are some people that I've worked with where it was so traumatic for me that I didn't, I didn't mistreat them in any way, but I don't care if I'll never hear from them again. You know what I mean? I, I've, I've actively decided not to keep that door open. 

  [00:30:33] Sidney Evans: I think that's the part of I hate the term networking because it, like you said, it gives me the mind of, you know, here's my card and have your people call my people, you know what I'm saying type of stuff, which very comes off very like contrived and all that type of stuff, but people always talking about it in the sense of, you know, Obviously you want to be positive.

  [00:30:53] So you would want to think that all the connections you make are going to be positive. The reality of sometimes you meet people in your life. If I would have, if that connection would have never happened, I would have been good. So that happens too. Like everybody's not going to become part of your tribe.

  [00:31:10] Everybody. You know, everybody doesn't become like a close colleague or friend or somebody that you can really, really rely on. Like there are different levels within that as well. So moving on from essence I think this is probably what the connection thing goes into pay too. So, and correct me if I'm wrong, like when you kind of started doing like your own thing, if that is correct, can you, can you touch on that and like what that process was like?

  [00:31:35] Ashley Hobbs: Yeah. So October, 2020. I took some months to just not do anything. And then in December, I signed up for AirMedia. Signed up for AirMedia because I was like, all right, let me figure out what it looks like to be an independent producer and put myself out there. So I signed up for AirMedia sometime in in December.

  [00:31:56] I want to say maybe like the second to last week of December. The first week of January, I get an email from a man named Dossie McCraw, who was an executive producer, or is an executive producer on Ebony K. Williams show, which had literally just started, I think in like November of 2020. He found me through air media.

  [00:32:16] So it was literally like a couple of weeks. I was like, bro, God is like, God is crazy. Like this is good. Hit me up. I gotta be honest. I was very timid. But everything about the process. was fair. It was equitable. Like, you know what I mean? Like I didn't have to fight for like the right rate and all these different things.

  [00:32:35] And I was like, all right, this white guy's all right. You know what I mean? Like, okay, cool. And I met Ebony and that was 2021. And I've been working on her show ever since. After that, I, I volunteered on a couple of shows. I worked on some other shows got paid for it and everything. Great experience. But it was like, everything happened progressively, you know what I mean?

  [00:32:59] But Ebony's show was one of the ones that I said, I'll continue to work on. And I told her, I said, I'll continue to produce your show as long as you want me to produce your show. And as long as you're, you're doing a show, because I had never worked on something before where, you Because, you know, your family, sometimes they be like, Oh, yeah, she, she, they keep telling people I'm on the radio.

  [00:33:19] And I was like, y'all gotta stop telling people that, because that's not, that's not what I do. You know, so it's like, and then in black households, anytime you ever do anything with a celebrity, they'll say, you know, you need to work with that Tyler Perry.

  [00:33:37] It's so funny. But, but I said like, I would, I would work on Ebony's show for as long as she wanted to have a show because I hadn't seen anybody do a legal podcast that was so down to earth and made you want to like listen and learn more about like how all these different headlines, like the things that she was pulling out of them.

  [00:33:57] It's like, yo, this really could affect my everyday life. Let me, let me tune it. My family was listening to it. My sister and my brother binged the show. And I was like, I think working on her show is what made me realize like, You have to decide what kind of producer you're going to be. Because I feel like for a lot of us there's like a fork in the road sometimes where it's like, are you going to be the kind of producer where you'll just do anything and most of it's probably going to be all the salacious stuff, or are you going to have like a standards for yourself?

  [00:34:26] Sidney Evans: Let me jump in real quick because I, I wanted to touch on that as well. It's like, that's the, I think it's a, there's kind of a gift and a curse. I'm like, we're like, this is what I had in mind when I wanted to work in the industry, like I'm, I'm, I'm being paid fairly is real. It's not corny. It's not something I wouldn't listen to if I wasn't working on it.

  [00:34:45] Like I, I don't want to work on something. And then I tell people about it, go listen to it. And I know like this, that'd be lucky to get through an episode. So when you work on stuff like that, or you work with a team like that and get introduced to it, it's like, when you are presented other things, you, you just want to realize how much you want to just say no to all the other stuff, but it's like, I got to find a balance between doing that.

  [00:35:06] And. I want to actually get work consistent work and continue to make a living. Like you said, like there's that fork in the road. Like, do you, do you chase the bag? Do you, you know, only work on things that are interesting and excited to you and everything in between. And I've kind of, I've kind of dealt with that too.

  [00:35:29] To transition to, to the actual question, like, what do you look for? Like, you know, once you, you go freelancing, you're doing your own thing. What are the things that you prioritize? So speak on that if you will. 

  [00:35:41] Ashley Hobbs: Yeah. I mean, nowadays, and this is the other part of it too. Right. And I'm sure you, you, you would agree, like being an independent producer is very feast or famine, right?

  [00:35:51] You have years where you do a real good. You don't have to worry about nothing, bop, bop, bop. Then you have times, years or months or whatever, where it's like, okay, right, it's going to be duped, you know? And so there is the temptation to be like, man, let me just take this. So I don't have to, you know, blah, blah, blah.

  [00:36:11] And this gets into like, I don't know, like the woo of it all, but I really do feel like the more that I look at it from an abundance mindset of like, I'm saying no to this so that all the other things that are actually for me can find me. And I could find them. The more that I do that, the more the opportunities start to align for me.

  [00:36:29] So like last year, I was flown out to LA to work on a show. Worked on the first episode and I think from the time, I mean, even before I got out there, I had the worst feeling about it. It just wasn't, it wasn't for me, man. And I was like, I can't fake the funk for this. And so I had a conversation with the producers and I was like, and the producers were cool people.

  [00:36:52] Don't get me wrong. But I was like, this show, man. It's, it's not, it's not for me. It's not for me. It's not for me. And I remember on the call, I said, I can't, I can't do this show anymore. I was like, so I'm fine with you, like, you know, paying me for the, the, cause I think I worked out for like four episodes.

  [00:37:10] Like I had like done scripts or something like that. I said, I'm fine. Because I produced the first two episodes, I said, cool, you can keep my name on it and everything. I was like, but, but take my name off. Yeah. I didn't promote it nowhere. I didn't tell nobody I was working on it. It was just like, no, this is not aligned.

  [00:37:29] And that's what I'll say. Like, it's not about being above something or, Oh, this is not good enough for me. It was not aligned for me. And I was like, I cannot keep taking gigs where it's not aligned and I'm miserable. Because like then the, it's like, bro, I need time to recover from this now because I done stressed myself out working on something that wasn't for me.

  [00:37:49] And so, I really look at who's the person that is the talent that I'm, that I'm gonna be working with from day to day. Are they collaborative? Are they, do they show up on time? Do they treat people well? Do they have something to say? Or are they just getting behind a mic and just talking a bunch of crap that I don't care to hear?

  [00:38:08] And I'm like, if what is happening on this show is giving people ins true insight into something, or teaching us something, or like, allowing us to feel better than we did before we listened to it, I'm on, I can be on board with that. And those are some of the things that I kind of like look for. But if it's all this finagling and trying to pay me the least amount as possible and people are constantly coming in and then leaving the project and like it's a revolving door, those are all red flags.

  [00:38:38] Disorganization behind the scenes, all red flags. 

  [00:38:41] Sidney Evans: Absolutely. Absolutely. So we're rounding third, but it's a couple, a couple more points that I do want to touch on. So the work that we do, like, it's, it's we've already mentioned, it's a lot of work. Whether you love it or not, obviously when you don't love it, it seems like more work.

  [00:38:56] So what is, what is your like routine? Like you need to, at some point you need to be able to, to, to do it in a healthy, sustainable way. You need to be able to step away and say, I, I'm not doing no more work today. Right. Or before you start working, you may have like a routine or a process that just kind of grounds you and allows you to do the best work you can do.

  [00:39:20] And then once it's done, whether you have like an unwinding process or whatever that looks like for you. So what, for you, like what, What does that encompass? 

  [00:39:31] Ashley Hobbs: Yeah. So I'll be honest. I'm, I'm like figuring out what my routine looks like nowadays. Cause one of my previous contracts, because it was a full time contract, I was able to like structure things better because that was like my main focus.

  [00:39:44] And the only other thing I was working on was Ebony show. And then that show was like on a hiatus for a long time. So all I had was the, the, the full time contract. Now it's, I'm working on two shows. Right. Then I have. audio book narration. I'm also working a retail job. You know what I mean? So it's like all these different things happening.

  [00:40:05] And so I'm in the process of like tweaking things to like really figure out what works. The good thing is that the two shows that I work on, even though they both release on the same day, the way that I go about like the recordings and all of that is totally different. And they're on, those are on different days.

  [00:40:23] So I know my Mondays and Tuesdays are for the one show. And then, for the most part, it's like Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Sometimes it's just Wednesday and Thursday. It's for the other show. I am trying to figure out what's the sweet spot in terms of like when I start working each day. I feel like 9. 30, 9 o'clock, 9.

  [00:40:42] 30 is a good sweet spot, but sometimes I find myself starting to work earlier than that because I'm like, you know how you have anxiety and you're like, I just want to get some of this stuff done so my brain isn't consumed with it. So sometimes I'm up as early as 7 in the morning, but some of the things I do to sort of like ground myself is like I'm a tea drinker.

  [00:41:01] So I like to have tea in the morning every now and then I meditate but for the most part It's like I'm journaling Whether I'm journaling my prayers out or just journaling like about what's going on with me so I can get that out I will either read or listen to the Bible or a book And those, and then also I'm like, tending to all my 31 plants.

  [00:41:21] Yeah, I saw that in your bio. 

  [00:41:22] Sidney Evans: I'm glad you mentioned that. We're not going to spend too much time on it. For those listening, you will not be able to see the video. Of this interview, but I can see her and I'm, I'm, I, she has like a, a whole family of plants behind her. So that checks out. 

  [00:41:37] Ashley Hobbs: Yeah. So that, those, that's the way that I kind of like I'm tweaking it, but that's sort of what my routine looks like right now.

  [00:41:44] Sidney Evans: Okay. Thank you for sharing that. I and answering that question, you, you mentioned that the, the, And the narration work, obviously, you know, we follow each other on social media. So I saw that you were doing that. And when I actually reached out to you and in regards to this interview, you said, you know, you had an inclination to want to step out more of the forefront and come from behind the scenes, obviously that this interview is shining more of a light on you directly, but I feel like.

  [00:42:15] the video narration work, they may have been like your first foray into making a transition. So like, how did, how did that come about? And like, how are you enjoying that process? 

  [00:42:26] Ashley Hobbs: Yeah, it came about because what was it like a couple years ago I was working on a project and I had to read an essay for it.

  [00:42:34] It was, we were putting together a podcast and we were doing like a, a chemistry read between the hosts and they had to listen to a very short essay and then respond to it. So I read the essay in dramatic form for them. And the engineer I was working with, who's like, 25 years in radio, he does voiceover and stuff.

  [00:42:56] He was like, Ash, like, you, you could do, like, commercials, like, you could do audiobooks, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, you think so? And he said, yeah. And then I had, a bunch of other people had said it to me over the years, and I had forgotten that I said I wanted to get into voice work back in, like, 2017.

  [00:43:13] But he helped me put together a, a real demo reel. And then a friend of mine asked me to do some voiceover for his YouTube channel. So that was like my first, like real, you know, work in that area. And then last year I recorded a my first audio book for a Penguin Random House, which was very cool. Cause the book got chosen for We Spoke.

  [00:43:34] Reese Witherspoon's, like, book club pick, which was so cool. And I've just been, like, auditioning and, like, all of that ever since. I was, I starred in two fiction podcasts last year. I had a small role in another fiction podcast that just won Tribeca's audio selections, which was super cool. So it all kind of, like, just, you know, happened sequentially.

  [00:43:54] It's not, it's not happening steadily, but it's happening sequentially. And I like it. I like it a lot because I get to perform, which is something that I feel like I always wanted to do since I was a kid. 

  [00:44:04] Sidney Evans: Yeah, I was going to say that sounds like it's full circle from when you were a kid and you, you know, you kind of, you kind of share with that that was that's earlier in the episode.

  [00:44:13] All right. Last couple of things. So you mentioned air media previously, which is the association of independent radio and audio creators, something, something, something similar to that. It was a group. I'm also a part of what other. Yeah. Like groups or communities are you a part of, you know, that you found helpful as far as presenting new opportunities?

  [00:44:36] Like I mentioned also earlier continue to. Evolve your skill set, whether it's classes or seminars, whether in person or virtual, or just connecting with other people in the industry as well. Cause this, this audio, and this may be the case for media in general, but especially in audio, if you're not like mentally strong, if you can't sustain like the waves and the ups and downs in the, you know, seasons of certainty and.

  [00:45:04] It seems like even more seasons of uncertainty, you could go crazy if you, if you don't have a, like a support system, whether it's like, like we mentioned the group chat people who are super, super close or like a more broad Avenue to feel supported and all those type of things. So what else are you a part of outside of air media?

  [00:45:25] Ashley Hobbs: So I'm a part of a a group called the Freelancers Hub. It's not, it's not solely towards audio professionals, but it's for anybody who's a creative, independent creative. And they have all sorts of really cool things in Brooklyn, in different parts of the city sometimes too, where they have, like, legal clinics, so you could come with your questions that you have around like forming your LLC or like, you know, getting paid because somebody didn't stiff you, you know, like all these different things, like they, they, you can go and get your headshots done for free.

  [00:45:57] You can use any of their like workstations for, you know, some hours per day for free, or, you know, you could pay whatever. They have all sorts of really cool events and workshops and stuff. So that's another thing that I'm a part of, but honestly, I feel like. Those are the only two, like, groups, Air Media and Freelancers Hub are the only two groups I'm a part of.

  [00:46:17] Everything else really is, like, the group chats that I'm in, right? Like, I'm in a group chat of all Black women who are in audio in some way, shape, or form, whether they're on the admin side or production side. Then I have my group chat of all the women who I work with at Essence. And we get together every now and then.

  [00:46:34] And yeah, I'm just kind of like keeping in touch with different people through LinkedIn sometimes, and then also just through Instagram as well. So, yeah. 

  [00:46:42] Sidney Evans: Yeah. So yeah, I will thank you for sharing without just a bit of advice for people listening. Like, yeah, just when I first got my start, I was in like Facebook groups.

  [00:46:50] That's, I think that's how I got, like, My first paying gig just, just, you know, obviously there are tons of platforms and like social media apps and, you know, all these different ways for you to, you know, get information and learn, learn the ins and outs of the industry, or maybe not specific to audio, like you said, just for people who are creatives or independent producers, all those types of things.

  [00:47:15] So I encourage you all, I haven't, I've kind of explored LinkedIn groups, but I don't. Having really dove deep into it, but I think that may be something for people to explore as well. So just always seek out those things that could potentially be helpful. No matter if you're like the, in the beginning, middle, or further along in your career.

  [00:47:37] So, To end on a lighter note, I got a couple of questions to ask. This is a podcast specific to the audio medium. So I just wanted to curious you mentioned that you went through your R& B music phase, I love R& B music. So these are going to kind of be music centered questions, but I'm curious to know what your taste is and.

  [00:47:57] I have in mind, like what some of your responses would be. So I'm curious to know if I'm like on the mark or completely off. So what is your favorite album of all time? No matter what genre. 

  [00:48:09] Ashley Hobbs: All right. So because I was born in the eighties and because I grew up in the church, the Winans family was very big in my house.

  [00:48:19] Bibi and CeCe Winans, their Heaven album was one of the best things that ever happened to gospel music. I think because it was one of those, those albums that like crossed over in a dope ass way. I don't know if I could say that about gospel music, but like, but in such a great way, like Whitney Houston was singing backup.

  [00:48:39] Like she just left her own tour to come and sing backup for her friends because she just wanted to be on tour with her friends. And it was some, it was some of the best music I feel like that came out of the late 80s. So I would say B. B. and CeCe Winans Heaven album. I know all the songs. 

  [00:48:53] Sidney Evans: I'm gonna give it a listen.

  [00:48:54] I'm gonna give it a listen. All right, moving right along. Who is your favorite music producer? 

  [00:49:00] Ashley Hobbs: My favorite music producer is probably Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. 

  [00:49:07] Sidney Evans: They're definitely top five all the time. All right, last two favorite TV theme song. 

  [00:49:12] Ashley Hobbs: It's probably going to be moving on up the Jefferson's.

  [00:49:16] That's one of my favorite TV shows. I love George Jefferson. 

  [00:49:19] Sidney Evans: So much. Yeah, it's, it's, it's catchy. And if you, if you happen to catch the episode and catch that, that theme is you'll catch yourself in the, in the grocery store saying so yeah, that's, that's definitely iconic. And the last is favorite film score.

  [00:49:37] Ashley Hobbs: Favorite film score. It's going to be Wait, you said score, not soundtrack. Cause I'm, so I'm like, cause I'm, if I'm gonna say score, if we're gonna say score, then it would be The Prince of Egypt, probably. 

  [00:49:51] Sidney Evans: Prince of Asia. Okay, what about Soundtrack? Waiting to Exhale? Why? I think that's the best one ever, so I was curious.

  [00:49:58] And you, and I, and I feel like you probably have read the, Isn't it, wasn't it a book first? 

  [00:50:03] Ashley Hobbs: It was a book first, but I was, I was young. I was, I think I was only like 12. So I didn't, I didn't read the book because I was reading like, You know, books for my age group at the time, but the soundtrack, I mean, babyface is a freaking phenomenal songwriter and just a persuader to get people on the album.

  [00:50:21] Cause if I'm not mistaken, Chaka Khan didn't want to do it. And he got her on there. 

  [00:50:25] Sidney Evans: Yeah, he that's, I think that's not to go too deep, but I think that's one of the, the, like the best producers, songwriters or combination of the two. Like. You can get people to convince people. You have to be, you have to sell it to them.

  [00:50:40] Like, you know, they may, they may want to work with you. Like you might want to, you might write a song that's like obviously a smash and they're like, yeah, I want to do that one. Or they can be like, I want to do it. And then you be like, but I have this other song that. I think you should do too. And they'd be like, I don't know if I'm, you know you can't get the smash if you don't do this one too.

  [00:51:01] So you gotta be a master persuader, but baby face you know, basically everybody you, you mentioned within this list are all legends. So I'm definitely in agreeance there. All right. I think we have. I think we're there. Here on a lot of lot of great topics. You went through a lot of things.

  [00:51:21] Ashley Hobbs: Yeah, man. 

  [00:51:21] Sidney Evans: So I appreciate you sharing all that and giving all that insight. But before we go just share with the people like where they can find you online on the socials, all that type of good stuff. And if they would like to connect with you, how can they do so? 

  [00:51:38] Ashley Hobbs: But sure. So my website is Ashley, j h.

  [00:51:42] com. So that's a S H L E Y J H. com. You can find me on LinkedIn, Ashley J Hobbs. Let's see what else? Instagram, Ashley J Hobbs. I'm on TikTok too, but it's just for me to watch things. I don't really post on there, but yeah, I post about my shows. I'm doing a little series now on Instagram about being a producer and stuff like that.

  [00:52:02] So yeah, you can check me out there. 

  [00:52:04] Sidney Evans: Well, thank you for sharing. Super, super grateful that you decided to hop on. Like I said, this is the first official episode. So I'm kind of at a loss for words. Like this is, this is, this is really, it's officially a 

  [00:52:17] Ashley Hobbs: thing. No, this is dope. It's a great conversation and I like the back and forth.

  [00:52:21] Cause you know, sometimes people will just ask the question and then be like, okay, let's move on to the next one. But I love the conversational aspect of this. So yeah. Congrats. Cause this is, this is going to be awesome. 

  [00:52:32] Sidney Evans: Yeah, I think this is a good start. Yeah, thank you for joining and thank you everyone for listening.

  [00:52:41] Thank you for joining us on today's episode. Please don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave us a review. If you'd like to work with me or connect, please go to soundbysaid. com and schedule a call there. You can also check out the full list of productions I've worked on. If you'd like to connect on social media, my handle is soundbysaid.

  [00:53:03] com on Twitter and Instagram, and I'm Sidney Evans on LinkedIn. Don't forget to. Follow Beyond the Threshold on Instagram as well. I'll catch you on the next episode.

In this episode of Beyond the Threshold, host Sidney Evans celebrates the dynamic journey of Ashley J. Hobbs, a three-time NAACP Image Award-winning podcast producer, writer, narrator, and voiceover artist.

In this episode we discuss:

• Ashley’s childhood aspirations and attending women's college.

• Transitioning from being fired to juggling multiple opportunities in different cities.

• Early experiences at Essence and the resilience that fueled her passion for writing and audio production.

• A leap of faith that lead to working on Holding Court w/ Ebony K Williams.

• Her authentic approach to building meaningful relationships.
  

Thanks for listening and don't forget to subscribe and leave a review!