Ep.6 From Game Boy to Game Audio w/Chase Bethea
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[00:00:00] Chase Bethea: Everyone has a price. And if you understand negotiation, then everybody can come and meet in the fair ground of the middle of somewhere in the middle, along the line somewhere. It's not always about the money. Uh, yes, I do want my, what my value is, but there's other ways to get to that.
[00:00:19] Sidney Evans: Tune in as we give flowers to black men and women making waves in the audio industry.
[00:00:25] I'm your host, Sydney Evans. And this is beyond the threshold.
[00:00:43] Welcome ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to beyond the threshold. I'm your host, Sidney Evans, an award winning audio editor, mixer, and producer. For those of you who don't know, on this show, I interview black men and women working in the audio industry to highlight the lessons and experiences it takes to achieve success in the field.
[00:01:02] Uh, I want to walk you all to another episode. Like I said, we've got another great one in store for today. And, uh, I will introduce the guests shortly, but before I do, just want to note something, um, and my side of the audio industry is more focused around podcasting. So a lot of the guests that I first recorded for this season were within that room, people that I already built relationships with and we're connected with, and.
[00:01:32] One of the promises that I wanted to fulfill in the show is that I have people across the board in the audio industry. And in order to keep true to that promise, I had to reach out to people that I don't know, which is a bit uncomfortable. But, uh, this is one of the first gentlemen who I reached out to and agreed to be on the show.
[00:01:50] Um, he's actually from the, uh, maybe a millennial, something that we're very familiar with the video side of. Uh, I'm sorry, the video game side of audio production. So, uh, he has over a decade of experience as a multi award winning video game composer, actually with over 25 games shipped thus far. He's also given over 45 talks in which he most recently was the keynote speaker at the.
[00:02:13] 2022 Global Game Jam. Um, he's also been exhibited, uh, in the National Association of Music Merchants Museum and given live performances at MAG West and Indiecade. So, uh, without further ado, I'd like to introduce our guest for today, Chase Bathia.
[00:02:31] Chase Bethea: Thank you so much for having me, Sid. I really appreciate it.
[00:02:34] Sidney Evans: Yeah, man. Uh, I would love to learn a little bit more about you outside of what I already know and for the guests to, they don't know you to learn about you, period. So could you just share a little bit about your background, man, and what kind of, uh, your interests were, you know, growing up and what kind of led you to going at the, going down this path and, uh, and ending up as a video game composer?
[00:02:59] Sure, so
[00:03:01] Chase Bethea: I was born and raised in Chicago, so I was there until I was about like 13, and then I moved out to LA, and so while I was in Chicago, my upbringing was mostly, I was a nerd, so I, I really, I enjoyed Toonami stuff really early. I was watching Dragon Ball Z when it was on Fox just before baseball came on.
[00:03:19] A lot of people didn't catch it until it came on to Cartoon Network or Toonami, and then they were all excited about it. But I knew it was on way before then. I, you know, had a Game Boy growing up. My grandmother bought me that. I had an alto saxophone and my father bought me, my mom was always into music.
[00:03:34] My father was into music, but he was a Chicago police officer, but he was kind of like a, a music of. So I've grown up around this and I was in choir and I was first year in alto saxophone in 7th grade and just really have been playing games mostly before I picked up the instruments because I got that my first game boy when I was around seven and was playing that and then 64 and PlayStation in my dad's house and then my dad wanted to move with him.
[00:04:07] He had a sacred Genesis. He bought me from Hollywood video. And so I'd been playing Mega Turrican, and Pitfall, and Earthworm Jim, and Beyond Oasis, and Game Boy game titles like Turok Battle of the Binosaurs, and Bugs Bunny Crazy Castle 2, and Godzilla, and Stargate. So, and then PlayStation games like Tomb Raider 1996, and Kickin My Dad's Ass in Tekken 2 and Resident Evil and Final Fantasy 7 playing games like that.
[00:04:38] So, I already, I guess, had the signature sound. I was playing Game Boy Camera when it first came out in 98. And so, I was writing music on the Game Boy Camera and it was listening to sound tests of Final Fantasy Legend 2 on the Game Boy and the other games that I mentioned as well. So, Game Boy Camera was mostly, I would say, my first introduction to game music that I'd been writing on.
[00:05:00] So it wasn't until I moved down to California and then my mom, my mom, my aunt bought me a computer. I was working off of this three gigabyte hard drive to just try to make beats really and things like that. But folks had always said, you know, the very first thing that I always, I showed someone and it was this girl at the bus stop named Tasha.
[00:05:20] And she said, sounds like it should be in a video game. Hand me back my CD player when I burned. I was thinking, Oh. Okay, that's not what I'm trying to achieve, but all right, so several years of hearing that from many different people, you know, the God in the universe really, it just told me that like, you should probably think about the video game thing.
[00:05:41] And so it wasn't until a friend of mine had told me, Hey, did you see who did the voice for. God of War, uh, and I said no, and this is God of War 3 on PS3, and I looked at it, and I was shocked because it actually turned out to be someone that I knew, it was a, it was a family friend who I referred to as my uncle, and his uncle T.
[00:06:04] C. Carson, and my mom and dad him were no longer speaking. And I didn't know until I went and say, Hey, Uncle TC is the voice of Kratos. And I'm digging, she knew I had already decided I wanted to go into video game music and go to GDC. And I started taking piano lessons. My aunt started to share with me, uh, to provide for me rather.
[00:06:23] And, I was like, that's nice. And so I was thinking, okay, that's not going to be my in. So I learned how to video capture from a very old turtle card. I was already, I had already went to Los Angeles recording school, sorry, and graduated from there. And then I decided during the recession, I was going to go back to school once I've discovered that this was A thing because I unlocked a video that talked about music, not being pigeonholed.
[00:06:53] You can do whatever style you want. And that's since I've been told that already had that sound. I was thinking I want music to not. I want my music to be that way and free and so I can amalgamate all that styles. And so, um, So then I applied playing PS3, I locked that video of other composers and they had showed that video of like how music could just for games could just be that and I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, I've been told that this is my sound.
[00:07:17] I've been trying to do this other thing. It's not working. And I finally put it together. And my first I did get an internship at a mobile game studio. I was while I was still in community college. just before I crunched for uni. So I was trying to figure this thing out, but I, sorry, I went back to capture that card and do a capture card.
[00:07:37] I did a demo, put it up on YouTube. It's still on my YouTube to this day for Gran Turismo. I tried to figure out how to go to GC. It was so expensive. I didn't do that. I got a job at Lens Crafters. That job at Lens Crafters led me to two different paths that could have, could have happened. One was a composer signing with the, one of the composers, the main composer of God of War that I didn't, didn't, meaning I'm friends with to this day and, but didn't become his assistant.
[00:07:58] But then got an internship through someone at LensCrafters, their uncle was in games. That internship was really cool, but the studio shut down. I bought a book called The Complete Guide to Game Audio, read half of the book, went online to game dev forums, posted my work, and mostly landed a gig, which ended up being a paid and my first ship game called Electron Flux on mobile, because now there's Electron Flux that came out some years later and it's on PC, so I have to specify what that is.
[00:08:23] It's a long story, but I wanted to give you the full context of where it all kind of comes from.
[00:08:28] Sidney Evans: Okay. Honestly, like a lot of the terminology and stuff, as far as the video game in, uh, I'm not as familiar with. So I'm sure people listening aren't as well. So, uh, the terms that you just mentioned, could you kind of like explain them?
[00:08:43] Just kind of, you were doing something video related. To video games, but then you were also making, okay. And then you were also creating music, but you weren't necessarily intentionally creating music for video games at the time. So, so explain into a little further detail what exactly you were doing with the, like the capture card, which you just mentioned.
[00:09:05] Chase Bethea: Sure, sure. So the capture card is the card that captures video of the input of something that you are taking from one device and transferring it to another. And this is how people are typically able to like stream retro games on Twitch nowadays. And so, but back then, That technology was hard. I had to rig different cables and just have this little medium and then have a software go from the PlayStation into the, the actual PC that I built.
[00:09:33] And yeah, it was, it wasn't so straightforward until late as Twitch became Twitch because Twitch used to be just in that TV where you used to maybe watch sports, so NBA games, things like that. legitimately, I would say, but they had that platform. And so that's where that came from on. So, like I was saying before, I was trying to do hip hop and R and B on any beats and styles that I was doing.
[00:09:55] They always would say, like, it sounds should be in a video game. So I just transferred the energy in terms of just not doing that anymore. Even though Producers kind of was getting to that sound. I was thinking, how is it still not accepted? Our culture plays this type, but now it's all, it's funny. Now it's a whole medium.
[00:10:13] It's called Nerdcore, but I was doing that 24 years ago, way ahead before it got popular. And I still have those tracks to this day. So it's just funny how I was mostly, I was told I'm a futurist and I'm ahead of my time.
[00:10:26] Sidney Evans: Okay. Hopefully that it kind of explains what you're saying. Yeah. That's a, that's a, uh, makes things a little more clear.
[00:10:31] So I'm just curious, like, what was your, Yeah, like what was your setup as far as making music at that time?
[00:10:37] Chase Bethea: Uh, super simple. I didn't even get an MPC 500 until I think the 6th or 7th year into producing. So, I was using, I started on FL Studio 3. Uh, Fruity Loops 3, before that I was on Hammerhead, then I found Fruity Loops 3, then I stuck with that.
[00:10:53] I could never get this sound. Timbaland had a, a track, demo track that was in there, it was amazing, and I'm thinking how do we get to this production sound, which is what led me to going to Los Angeles Recording School and trying to better my production skills. Even though I was there for audio engineering mostly, but I figured the two would work together because you need to use EQs and compressors and so on.
[00:11:15] So the setup was pretty simple. I had even hustled together some money to get an M Audio Axiom 61. I was very proud about that for my MIDI controller and that's it really. I've really wasn't much. I had some Yamaha HSADMs that I did purchase too. I still have those
[00:11:35] Sidney Evans: and
[00:11:35] Chase Bethea: that's
[00:11:35] Sidney Evans: it. Okay. Was there a particular individual who.
[00:11:39] I don't know who I guess served as like a mentor who was that person that kind of, um, or did you kind of just have to like do everything you think on your own as far as like getting access to people who were blocking who would give you a chance, like who really give you your first opportunity to compose for a video game, whether no matter the level of the skill that it was on
[00:12:00] Chase Bethea: well to compose for my first video game.
[00:12:01] I did it on my own. I bought that book, uh, because the internship only got me so far, but I never got to ship. I did technically ship the game, but I just don't even know if it was credited and that game was Zombie Wonderland 2, and it was supposed to write for a different game called Airborne Geyser, and, but the studio has shut down due to some drama.
[00:12:22] And even though there was opportunity to write, continue further and do that, I turned it down because it didn't feel right. I thought it might've been shady. So by buying the book, The Complete Guide to Game Audio by Aaron Marks, second edition, I had figured that out on my own. So I gave myself the first opportunity, uh, in terms of mentors, they didn't come until later until, like I said, I, uh, the composer from God Award, Gerard Marino, I didn't become his assistant due to some scheduling, but I ended up did becoming a good friend.
[00:12:51] And it was fortunate to earned the trust of him, which led to me helping to move a couple times. And then that introduced me to his friends. So Cole Hicks, who used to be at Riot and Ken Jacobson, who became my first mentor, uh, he took me in and showed me different production things that I wanted to do.
[00:13:10] Wouldn't have been able to kind of achieve otherwise and Kyle Johnson, who worked at ever soft and he wasn't there while there, but later on and he was always helping me and he ended up mastering a couple of my soundtracks as well as can from my from my games as well.
[00:13:25] Sidney Evans: Okay. So when you, uh, when you came across those people, because usually.
[00:13:30] There's like a, uh, the kind of the path is how you kind of like you did, like you, you do everything you're wrong. You're kind of like, you know, in your basement or at least the modern way of doing it back then. You probably had to like, you know, 23rd, I don't know, 30 years ago. Like the only way for really for you to get in was to work at a studio or you would actually have to leave home to actually do the thing.
[00:13:54] But now you, uh, or. Maybe your stages around that time, the transition was to where you could do things from your bedroom, but then there's, that also presents an issue as to where, like, you're comfortable within that environment. And even though if you create something and have people listen to it, it is from that comfort zone of, you know, your own space, but what was it like for you?
[00:14:16] Like going outside of that and maybe having to actually, You know, maybe produce with other people around or somebody like over your shoulder critiquing you, or maybe just getting like the high level of feedback that you may not necessarily have gotten from doing it in your own space. So, uh, was that a thing that actually existed for you?
[00:14:36] Chase Bethea: Not really. I've, to be honest, I really, I'm not someone who really asked for a lot of help because I'm so used to doing a lot on my own, because I couldn't rely on people because they weren't, they didn't have the same worker ethic that I did. I'm someone who's very reliable. I came into this industry very professional thanks to my mom teaching me professionalism and etiquette and decorum and it was unmatched.
[00:15:03] Absolutely. It was so rare to find. So I think one of the reasons that Kyle and Ken had gave me some kind of tutelages because they realized that I'm a hard worker. If I was looking for feedback, I struggled before I asked to, for it, because I understand when you're an, uh, when you're an apprentice or you're an assistant, it's not about you, it's about them.
[00:15:24] them and you're servicing them. And because I worked in so many retail jobs over for 10 years in conjunction with going to school and uni and pursuing this career path, I took extremely hard path. Most people would do one and then transition to another and then maybe do two. But I did all three. And so I understood that I'm servicing, I'm not I'm not trying to say, Hey, look at me.
[00:15:46] This is what I want. Can you help me? Can you help me? In fact, I wasn't even looking for that internship with Ken. He asked me a couple questions when I was at a, it was called a game audio network guild barbecue. The last one, I think in Los Angeles at the time, over a decade ago, and he asked me two questions.
[00:16:07] And I think I answered those questions, and they said, okay, give me a call next week. I think they asked me if I'd been an assistant before, and I was. I'd been an assistant composer before. So, Yeah, again, it just kind of happened. I wasn't looking for it. And so, but I'm very thankful because it shows that that person saw something to me and believed in me.
[00:16:26] And in the industry for even like getting an agent nowadays, that doesn't even exist, especially for minority Americans of African descent.
[00:16:35] Sidney Evans: Okay. Uh, I'm glad you actually brought up that part because, uh, the reason why I wanted to start this podcast is because I just didn't, um, see a lot of black men and women in the auto industry in the honestly, honestly, the ones that I did see were.
[00:16:52] There were like more producers and stuff. Um, and then to be honest, even for the ones that were black, I noticed that it was more women than men, which it was, it's kind of been more of a, of a task to try to find men to have on the podcast as well. So did you think that, um, cause obviously like you speak the language, like you, you live and breathe, like what you were doing as far as music and video games.
[00:17:15] Like that is a part of you. I could just tell from, you know, from the short conversation we've had so far, but. You know, for somebody outside of our community to, you know, maybe hear your work or something like that, and then to actually realize that it was you, uh, you know, young black kid, um, or a man or, you know, no matter what stage you were that, uh, had had done those things had done the work.
[00:17:37] Do you feel like do you feel like it was harder because you were black?
[00:17:42] Chase Bethea: When I started in the industry, tried my best to go in with it, with just my work speaking for itself, but the past five years I've think I've come to a pragmaticism that it definitely has been harder. And I think, and even with all the awards and the things that I've achieved and being the museum, you know, it's like, Oh, well, no, it's like, but I've been in this, bigger number because I guess the other number doesn't seem to have this gravitas.
[00:18:11] So I say 4, 745 days versus 13 years, but that's what the equivalency of those are. So 4, 745 days sounds bigger than it was like, Oh, it's just 13 years. Well, when is it a number of, of meaning to someone. It's like, Oh, you've been this 40 years. Like, that seems like a bigger number. Like, Oh, 13. Like, yeah. So it's, I mean, even at that barbecue, I was the only minority American of African descent there.
[00:18:37] Uh, but I was comfortable because my mama taught me how to be comfortable in these spaces. But in terms of trying to get to the next level of the opportunities that I want to achieve that I, and also value that people of offers, whereas, and I know they wouldn't offer that to this person, Why are they trying to slight me?
[00:18:56] So that's what I've been experiencing the past five years. And it's been, it's been actually very frustrating.
[00:19:01] Sidney Evans: Okay. So, yeah, so, so you got, I guess the stage is just like, first is actually people like, okay, I'm going to hire you. I wanted to work with you and then you get over that hump and then you're like, okay, they want to work with me, but they don't want to pay me the way I should be paid.
[00:19:17] They don't want to pay. Yeah. That's exactly it. Yeah. That's, that's, that's, um, that's unfortunate. I tried to, um, obviously like the money part of it. Is no matter what field you, what field you're in, it's an aspect of it. You know, as much as we may fall in love with the creative, with the technical stuff, if you want to do it as a, as a career, you're going to have to like, you know, no matter how much you try to avoid it, that those conversations, that reality is, has to exist.
[00:19:46] So, and I guess just in a, in a general sense, I guess. This is, this is an opportunity to point this out as well. Do you think that, especially now, do you feel that people that work in audio, do you feel like the audio or the audio medium in general is something that is like. Undervalued like I feel like out of all the based on my experience from the production process, whether it's pre production Post production or the actual the main part of production that people would throw money at a lot of things the video The sets the you know, what?
[00:20:20] I don't know depends on obviously the medium But like when it comes to audio is kind of like people just kind of want to give you what's left over You know the scraps and maybe for you know people So for black people and our lives is how we feel. So if you're black and working in audio, it's like twofold.
[00:20:38] So do you think, yeah, just to, I believe, I do believe audio is something that is undervalued. Uh, but would you agree? Definitely concur. And
[00:20:47] Chase Bethea: it's worse in video games because there are sites that make it cheaper. In terms of, you know, royalty free tracks or then it's worse when students don't understand the business side and they come out of college and they just they're just eager to work and try to get and say yes to everything and they offer their time for free and so.
[00:21:08] My goal is to re educate, you know, the newer area ages of, to capture, to cap it before it gets to audio, not talk to the audio people, but the game designers are coming up and if, if, if there's still games around by that time with AI tools, like now they're able to kind of just circumvent that and they are just thinking it's an afterthought and thinking, hold, hold on, like this microphones are three to 4, 000 or, you know, 300.
[00:21:32] 000, etc. The, you know, the mic pre's itself were very expensive for good quality stuff. The instruments aren't cheap. The time at school, I'm sure you had to get a loan of some sort, not everybody's getting grants or you're coming out of your pocket. Like, where did you, where did you think that? free was good to give away.
[00:21:50] Like what? At what point did Bill stop? Or, you know, and there's a certain affluence, obviously, because they're getting kickbacks from different patron patronage type of parents, obviously, for those things. And those resources are not typical across the board, obviously, through cultures. So it's a broken system.
[00:22:13] Overall, that's It's hard to break those small areas where people understand, yes, you need good work, yes, you do see the value, and I think that just comes with then that circle of small work ethic when people see like, oh, he's winning awards, oh, he's always here, he's always there, you've got to show the value in other ways, but it's still about So, yeah.
[00:22:33] It's, it's still so much more that of 10 more steps than the average, you know, versus a majority American could do than a minority American and many years and many more steps. And so it's just not only is undervalued is very unfair. It's very unbalanced.
[00:22:49] Sidney Evans: I would agree. And I think that. And a lot of things related to audio, like, you know, music producers do this a lot now too.
[00:22:57] Like you have to, maybe even artists because of like, you know, digital streaming and like the amount of money that's pumped into the music industry. Like, obviously. Prior to this generation, like it was very sustainable to just produce or be an artist, go on tours, sell records, sell merch, you know, basically through your label or whatever.
[00:23:20] And like, you can, it's very lucrative and it's like, now you're doing that. You're creating content. You got to do all types of things. And that's, but that's not. Only to, you know, back then it was like very lucrative. Now that's just to stay above water. So if you implement any, any of that type of stuff by creating content or like maybe putting out stuff to say, this is how I, uh, you know, created this game or, you know, maybe you give tips or tips.
[00:23:47] Tips or tricks on, you know, your process and those type of things. There's a lot of different ways you can create content. But have you been having to use those type of things, uh, to compensate for maybe not it being a sustainable from a lifestyle standpoint? Absolutely.
[00:24:04] Chase Bethea: I've been streaming on Twitch, my composing process.
[00:24:06] I'm one of the few that do it. And especially one of the few in the minority American African descent that do it for 10 years. I've been doing a gamer composer on Twitch, and I would show how it's done because I started it because I went to show a compose. I went to show game developers, you know, that we're looking to hire composers that I'm not just pressing a key on the keyboard and it's done.
[00:24:26] I've really got to think about core regressions. I got to think about, uh, how this is going to work with the game, the sound palette, the restrictions, why it's going to work, why it's not going to work. I specialize in interactive and adaptive and dynamic music. So I take it a step above just normal loops.
[00:24:41] I'm not just making tracks and throwing into the game. I'm really tying it to game mechanics. I'm on this. I'm tying it to level designs. I'm creating musical scores that are going to adapt to the player's inputs that were based off his being the story of the player pulls out of. A tool or if they've got encounter combat, I've taken it to a higher level.
[00:25:00] So I've done that for Twitch on Twitch for 10 years. And then I also started a recent series on my YouTube channel called how I composed and that's a higher production thing that takes a lot of time and effort, but I've realized it's starting to take off as of this year. So I'm going to be creating more.
[00:25:16] Whereas in I, I break down just in a format, if I'm not doing it in the In the guest speaking form of the presentation I'm doing at game conferences, it's more so of this is how I designed this piece of game music for this. I had this document, I had this vertical slice, which is a prototype of the game and this is how I approached it.
[00:25:35] This is my musical idea. This is where my thought process were, and it's very unique. And so it's my perspective of that. And then recently I started a Patreon just as last week, whereas I'm giving my insight in terms of my thoughts on my professional Player Opinion is what it's called, and it's not only going to be talking about audio, but it discusses when I'm playing a game, what I'm thinking about, what I enjoyed about it, why I thought something did work, why I thought something was great, but also my, the recent one is the Nobuo Uematsu were saying where game music is stagnant, and the briefing to that is like, I concur that it is.
[00:26:12] And I discuss why. And so those are the three pieces of content is, you know, streaming on Twitch for the past 10 years, the YouTube series, how I compose, and then professional pro player, pro player opinion really is what is discussed on my Patreon. And I think that gives a, it gives a lot of value. What I understand those people still, there's been so much modding calling that's been happening in the industry because a lot of people get stuff for free that.
[00:26:38] They, it's the old saying is like, you have to pay attention before they could pay you. People have been paying attention to me, but they still don't want to pay. They don't realize that I'm just going to be disrupting the model overall, because if you want quality, especially on the thought leadership that I bring, you will have to pay something for it.
[00:26:55] Just like as you did in school. And that's just where I stand.
[00:26:58] Sidney Evans: Yeah. Like you said, like you mentioned earlier with, um, all the accolades and stuff like having to, you know, when people approach you, you, you have to bring awareness to all that you do so people can see the values to, to where they want to pay.
[00:27:12] And you, you going into depth, uh, About what you just mentioned. It kind of reminds me because, um, I have no musical talent whatsoever, but I definitely appreciate it. So I consume a lot of behind the scenes stuff, not just music, TV, film too. But since we're on the topic of music and there's this, um, there's this podcast that I listened to called the soundtrack show, which is, goes into like the musical breakdowns of like a lot of the, a lot of the popular scores from films that we all love, um, whether, you know, it's past or present.
[00:27:43] And. What you mentioned about your process of showing how you do just reminded me of that. And on that, I did hear like, cause they kind of pull clips, you know, how some of these DVDs and stuff, they have like feature red. So they have the composer and stuff on there or the director talk about stuff. And my favorite composer is John Williams.
[00:28:02] And I think it was specifically Home Alone, the one that I was watching. And he mentioned that, you know, a lot of people won't come to him. Obviously, if you're John Williams, like. This is not as relevant as far as the money part of it, because I can only imagine how much money he's made from doing scores.
[00:28:17] He's been doing it. He's probably been doing this 50 years and some of the biggest, you know, blockbuster movies ever. But he said like some people may have been hesitant to come to him, to ask him to do a, to do a score because it may not have been a blockbuster budget movie, but he. Talked about how he decides what he's going to do and not do is based off his visceral reaction to, to the story, to the movie or whatever.
[00:28:46] And that will, and if it's, if it inspires him to want to create, he'll do it kind of really no matter the scale of the production until when, when people come to you, uh, for opportunities or whether you seek them out, we've already mentioned that a lot of, a lot of them don't want to pay what you're worth.
[00:29:04] But. How do you go about deciding like what you will and won't work on outside of the money part? Like, do you kind of get a, a feel for like, okay, this is, it might be a nostalgia thing. Like, oh, this reminds me of this video game and I kind of want to do my own take on it. So I'll accept it. Or maybe if somebody is willing to pay you what you're worth, but you're like, you know, I feel like if I take it, I'm just doing it because of the money.
[00:29:28] And it might show up in my work, like I might not be able to deliver, deliver as much on this than if I were doing something that I was more excited about doing. So what is your kind of process for deciding those things?
[00:29:42] Chase Bethea: When I am approached from different projects, I typically, it's very rare. I'll turn down some game work on the work that I did one TV show that I did some music for called cold and windy, which was.
[00:29:54] Some years ago, I wasn't the main, I was the main composer at first. And then I was, I'll just be transpicuous. Say I was fired, but the team was not the best. And so they, that got taken over on, I would only do TV or film stuff. It's, it's like, Game documentary related, or if the team is really cool and creative, I've worked with them before or something.
[00:30:17] I have got some film friends that would say, Hey, we want you to do it now. I might try it again for that in that regard. But in terms of games, when I, I've not approached as much, mostly because I think I didn't know that John Williams has this problem, but it makes sense. I've been told that since I start winning the awards, they assume that I'm too expensive.
[00:30:37] It's really simple. It's really easy. This is why I was talking about business. Everyone has a price. And if you understand negotiation, then everybody can come and meet in the fair ground of a middle of somewhere in the middle along the line somewhere. It's not always about the money. Uh, yes, I do want my, what my value is, but there's other ways to get to that.
[00:30:58] In terms of negotiations, there could be back end. There could be live performance of it could be right retaining. There could be revenue share plus back end or there's just so many. I've come up with so many different combinations. There's there's payment plans. There's it's just so many things, but some people just aren't cognizant enough or even just there's just so many things.
[00:31:22] Wanting or willing to even have that next step in the conversation. And so I just say this and they offer that and they're and they just they're like, no, okay, which shows me that they're in one sense. They're doing business in the way of they want the cheapest thing that they can get, but, you know, it's get what you pay for.
[00:31:40] And I've seen this before happened. You were in the quality. You're not going to get. Good, fast and cheap. Got to pick two, right? You're only going to get two. Yeah, you're only going to get two. So you better pick two very well. I know what to I usually think it's not going to be cheap. So that when they come to me with that, it's just I can always sense that they just want what the cheap and they hope to get good and it's going to be good enough and I don't offer that.
[00:32:07] You know, my work has integrity. My work has quality. I put over ten thousand dollars hours into this well above and more ever to continue on. And I, I only want to work with mindsets of people that understand the value, understand their value. Because the craziest thing to me in my mind is thinking, if you invest in me, you're going to get this.
[00:32:28] But you're investing in yourself, which is you want the player to invest in you so you can recoup that. You're not just, you're not just being a patron to me so you can have it and you can just listen whatever and say you got Chase Bathia multi world winning video game compositions on your phone to play on your Bluetooth in your car.
[00:32:44] You're putting something into an entire art form that you want players to receive and Experience from that. You want them to pay for where there's 5 or 30 or 70 or 100, whatever you pricing it for. So it blows my mind that they just do not come back to. Yeah, this is going to be worth it. This is set work.
[00:33:07] He's not a rookie. Here is not a newbie. We're going to get We're going to get a great experience, we're going to get stuff on the milestone, we're going to get high quality composition, we're going to, we're going to get a lot for what we're going to be putting out. But I have no interest in trying to control people and try to buy something anymore.
[00:33:27] So I stand where I'm at. And that's, so if it is come to me, I just looking for mindsets of the same.
[00:33:32] Sidney Evans: Okay, cool. Uh, I, I, I try, I try to think of. Like toilet paper, like that's the one thing you can't, you can't get, you can't go cheap on man. Like you will instantly regret it.
[00:33:44] Chase Bethea: That's a real, that's a great
[00:33:46] Sidney Evans: analogy.
[00:33:46] Obviously, like, cause I, cause I'm thinking about like for people who, you know, This is more so like if you're like an Indi Independent, you know, producer of something, whether it's film or podcasts or do whatever. I mean, obviously a large, probably the majority of podcasts don't have a visual element, so that shows you that you don't even actually need that part of it.
[00:34:07] But people want to pay all, put the whole budget towards, you know, cameras and video and things like that. And to be honest, like if you have a good audio experience. People will be more forgiving for the other stuff. I'm not telling you to, you know, pay us and go cheap on somebody else, but I'm just saying you could at least even the distribution of it a little bit.
[00:34:29] And I think it would take you a longer way. Like the whole experience of if you ever watched a scary movie, you know, what do people do when they try to alleviate? Them being scared, they cover their ears. They don't cover their eyes. If you're watching a horror movie, and it's just dialogue, it's not scary.
[00:34:49] It's the music and the anticipation and the, and the, you know, the jump scares, the jump scares are scary because there's this huge lift in the music. So, um, and I know we've kind of, you know, harped on this for a long way for a while, but. I'm very passionate about it. So I try to always give my opinion and try to express how valuable I think, you know, obviously I do it on a smaller scale with podcasting, but especially those who are mentally talented like you and you take it to a whole nother different level.
[00:35:23] Uh, I just want to, you know, kind of make sure you are valued as much as possible. Um, thank you, sir. So, and
[00:35:31] Chase Bethea: likewise, podcasting is not, not easy. I've done, I've been, I've been. a panelist on a podcast for three years, Game Audio Hour, and also Chronicles of Gamers with one of my close friends. So I know how hard work it is.
[00:35:46] Sidney Evans: Yeah. Um, for me, the most, I think the most talented people when it comes to media are people who do music, whether it's composed like you or just do it as, you know, In a traditional artist sense and people who write writers, like, I feel like those are the two most important things in media in general, because obviously, if you don't have writing, you don't have a script, you don't have a song, you don't have anything and the music just elevates it.
[00:36:16] It puts you in the thing, no matter what it is, music or video games, speaking of video games and a few other things we're getting to the end of the interview here. But, uh, for all my guests, I do like to ask them a few questions about their favorites. It only makes sense for this particular instance to ask, what is your favorite video game of all time?
[00:36:41] Chase Bethea: It's tough for me because I have this thing about the all time phrase. Time is still going with humans. So it's like of our time, it makes the most sense. So I can't really answer that.
[00:36:53] Sidney Evans: I'll ask this. What game have you played the most that you can give me an answer on that?
[00:36:59] Chase Bethea: I think I've at least played Shadow of the Colossus two times.
[00:37:03] Definitely a beat it twice. Beat it twice.
[00:37:05] Sidney Evans: Okay. I'm uh, I've never actually, I play a lot of sports games, especially baseball, but for other games, I normally don't play them through twice. I usually play like the story modes and then I'll just switch to like the online play once I do that. But. A game that was just such a crazy experience and I enjoy so much more than any other game Red Dead Redemption 2.
[00:37:31] So now I'm gonna go back and play it on hard. Like I've never played a game that detailed in my life like it. I was blown away and to find out that it's a game that's like four or five years old is And I probably played it two years ago a year or two ago So that game has motivated me to do so. Okay next favorite album
[00:37:50] Chase Bethea: of all time Sorry before I go on all of the game that played twice with Beyond Oasis So it's a tie between those two and that's on Sega Genesis the favorite album that I've has the most spins Although I consumed a lot of music, so I may not be able to answer this.
[00:38:06] Just just fear memory blank in terms of soundtracks at probably most. It might be between Ridge Racer R4 or Turok Battle of the Dinosaurs on Game Boy.
[00:38:19] Sidney Evans: OK, cool. So so soundtracks to games. The music producer who you admire the most. I'm trying to rephrase these questions because you kind of threw a dent in the way I usually ask it.
[00:38:30] So I got to kind of read, I got to read, rephrase it. Yeah.
[00:38:33] Chase Bethea: You got, you got something fresh. The all times is the only thing that you weren't expecting. Expecting. So, but this one, I, I remember anticipating I was, I can answer this one the way that I think you had structured before. So I can answer like two parts that I could do the video game composer, or I can do the music producer.
[00:38:50] It's a really big toss up. I was hoping to talk this one out to see if my brain would come with an answer, but it's really between Timbaland and Pharrell and ironically their cousins. So it wouldn't go wrong either way. I'm trying to think who I'm mostly influenced by just by just the edge. I'm probably going to say Pharrell.
[00:39:08] Just because I know that with Timbaland, I'm mostly influenced through the rhythms, but between It's it's hard. I should really say the Neptunes because it's Chad and It's Chad Hugo and Pharrell Williams. So I really should say the Neptunes versus Timbaland and it's really hard Because the, the production of Timberland had inspired me very early, just before I found out about Terrell, Pharrell or the Neptunes in, what was that?
[00:39:35] 2001? When they, they would been always, they produced, produced in the nineties, but they're really big heads with clips and, uh, doing Justin Timberlake and other, other artists really were, were influencing me in the Jay-Z pieces that they were doing and collaborating. Yeah. So I, I'm sorry. It's not going to be straight.
[00:39:54] It's just, just give me some grace between the notes.
[00:39:57] Sidney Evans: Okay. That's that's fair. That's fair. You, when you go into that too much detail, you got, uh, I have no choice, but to give you grace. So, uh, next, the last two next is favorite film score.
[00:40:10] Chase Bethea: I have a favorite film cue, which is one piece from the entire is perfumed story of a murderer.
[00:40:17] Sidney Evans: I'm going to have to, uh, follow up with you in the email so you can, you know, put pen to paper so I can actually go and do the research on these. Cause, um, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm very curious and I like learning and I. Like being exposed to new things. So these are a lot of things that I haven't heard of. So definitely looking forward to checking them out and last favorite TV theme song the 90s X
[00:40:40] Chase Bethea: Men animated series for sure.
[00:40:41] Oh, that's a good
[00:40:42] Sidney Evans: one. That is that is a good one, man. I'm have to listen to that once we hop off here because I haven't heard it in a while.
[00:40:49] Chase Bethea: Oh, yeah. It's going to give you goosebumps. For sure.
[00:40:51] Sidney Evans: That one in the Power Rangers one. To me, they're neck and neck. Oh, the Power Rangers. Yeah. I only forgot about
[00:40:57] Chase Bethea: that.
[00:40:58] Yeah. And I just thought about the Goosebumps one is pretty good too. That TV. Yeah. That one was pretty cool.
[00:41:04] Sidney Evans: Oh, okay. I think that's pretty much it, man. You went to extreme detail, uh, about your journey. I learned a lot about video games on the composing side. My only familiarity with them beforehand was Just being a consumer.
[00:41:18] So, uh, it was a great learning experience. You're one of the guests that, you know, a lot of people have kind of interesting journeys and my, my journey was interesting into getting into audio. But every now and again, you kind of meet people who are kind of just born to do the thing. And you, I think you're my, the first one that I've had on here.
[00:41:38] He was just like, I was locked in from an early age. So it was definitely glad to know that about you, man. Um, is there anything that you want to share? Obviously you mentioned a lot of the content you create, if people want to actually play the games or go. Listen to some of the stuff you've done before.
[00:41:53] Can you just point them in the right direction so they can support you? Yeah, we want to make sure we got our way to support the guests we have on here.
[00:42:00] Chase Bethea: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I'd love to share. So some of the games that you can support by playing on Steam are deity quests. On the peril of parrots, which is the word I won for best original soundtrack for the next word and a global music award a ground as well.
[00:42:15] A ground is not only on steam, but it's my first console game. So it was a big milestone for me and hopefully the first of many. And if you like Minecraft mixed with Roblox and Terraria, that game is that, but it's better because it has progression and story. So it's not just the same type of thing. A lot of people enjoy it.
[00:42:34] And you also can. I mean, if you go to my website, chasepathia. com, C H A S E, B as in boy, E as in Eric, T as in Tom, H as in Harry, E as in Eric, A as in Apple, you'll see all the other things that, uh, projects that I've been part of, Limited Run Games, Gex Trilogy trailer that I did, the Set 10 rumble remix by team fight tactics.
[00:42:55] You can check that out But please give me a follow on Spotify Spotify is playing games with artists If you don't have like a thousand plays add my music to the playlist They're gonna if you don't have a thousand plays They're gonna give that work to some other person and I just think that's deaf and that's bogus But if you really really want to support my work Please go to chase, but the band camp.
[00:43:14] com purchase a soundtrack. I'm going to be also be doing way more live performances. I have performance at mag West in September. It should be mag West and 20 to 24th or so over the weekend. And that's in San Jose. And then if you're in the Los Angeles area, I have a, Live performance of work that's being performed.
[00:43:32] Star Dander School for witches is a lot of it's going to be a small ensemble where they're going to be doing encore performance of a work. And actually, I'm the brainchild of this kind of small concert because I went to them and said, Hey, do you do video game music? And they took my idea and it became what it is.
[00:43:49] And so it's really cool to see it being performed again as it was a year ago. And that's in Los Angeles. That's September 7th, three o'clock in West LA and tickets. And that's, I guess, coming up on a month away. So there's that as well. And I believe, yeah, like I said, just follow on all the platforms, follow my YouTube channel.
[00:44:09] If you want to see how creating different content, see different other interviews that have joined the how composed series. And I think that's it.
[00:44:17] Sidney Evans: Okay. Uh, appreciate you sharing, man. And once again, I appreciate you for joining. Uh, I enjoyed having you on and for everybody listening, I will catch you on the next episode.
[00:44:30] Thank you for joining us on today's episode. Please don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave us a review. If you'd like to work with me or connect, please go to soundbysaid. com and schedule a call there. You can also check out the full list of productions I've worked on. If you'd like to connect on social media, my handle is soundbysaid.
[00:44:52] com on Twitter and Instagram, and I'm Sidney. Don't forget to follow Beyond the Threshold on Instagram as well. I'll catch you on the next episode.
In this episode of Beyond the Threshold, I am joined guest Chase Bethea dive into his story of becoming a multi-award-winning video game composer.
With over a decade of experience and contributions to 25 games, Chase's career is result of dedication and the intersection of the creative synergy of music and technology.
Beginning with his upbringing in Chicago, in this episode we discuss:
His experiences with music and a Game Boy Camera in his youth.
The significance of chance encounters including his first paid gig.
Using capture cards for streaming and creating game demos.
Challenges he faced as an African American in the audio industry,
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