Ep.3 Exploring Creativity & Representation w/ Kacie Luaders

• Transcript

  [00:00:00] Kacie Luaders: I believe that everyone's individual perspective is so important. Figuring out how to approach it from your unique perspective, you just have to kind of like carve that space for yourself within a given topic or genre. 

  [00:00:19] Sidney Evans: Tune in as we give flowers to Black men and women making waves in the audio industry.

  [00:00:25] Sidney Evans: I'm your host Sidney Evans, and this is Beyond the Threshold.

  [00:00:42] Sidney Evans: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Beyond the Threshold. I'm your host Sydney Evans, an award winning audio editor, mixer, and producer. For those of you who don't know on this show, I interviewed black men and women working in the audio industry to highlight the lessons and experiences it takes to achieve success in the field.

  [00:01:00] Sidney Evans: I want to thank you all for tuning in to another episode. We got another amazing guest on tap for today. And as I usually do, I'm kind of going to just jump right into things, but I do have a bit of a story before we get there. So in Either 2021 or 2022, I was commissioned, or to simply put it, I was asked to speak at Black PodFest in Atlanta to lead an audio engineering panel.

  [00:01:27] Sidney Evans: She had a panel. She was a panelist too. And she led the sound engineering panel, sound design panel. And I said, okay, I'm going to go I'm going to check that one out. That was one of the ones I had highlighted that I wanted to check out. And during the session, I was like, okay. She's got, she's got a unique sense of humor.

  [00:01:45] Sidney Evans: Oh, she, she, she knows her stuff. She's oh, she's creative. I was like, as she's going, I'm just like all these like interesting things, you know, she brought up and kind of introduced. And so I said, okay, I'm gonna follow up with her. I made a list of people that, you know, that I found interesting that I wanted to, to connect with afterwards.

  [00:02:04] Sidney Evans: So when I got back, I did that, reached out to her, like caught on a quick zoom, just introduce ourselves, what we do, just kind of get to know each other a little bit. So I ended up following her on social media and I would say probably within that first month she was providing like all these resources for creatives whether it's audio or other fields and she posted a link about associate producer role so I clicked on it and I was like I kind of, I felt like it was just like, for me, like, it was just like, this is everything I'm looking for, for the full time.

  [00:02:43] Sidney Evans: It was very creative. It was edgy and it was cool. So I applied, forgot all about it. Maybe like a month later, they hit me up. I interview and I end up getting a job. So if I if all those things hadn't aligned the way they did, I would have never got that opportunity. So I said all that to say, she's a great resource for people looking for jobs, looking for opportunities.

  [00:03:05] Sidney Evans: And we're gonna get more into that in the episode. But to give a quick background on her, she's a creator and arts advocate based out of Atlanta. She earned her. Degree in music recording technology from Hampton and master's in sound design from Savannah college of art and design. She participated in the 2019 Spotify sound up podcast and accelerator program.

  [00:03:29] Sidney Evans: And she formed a production company could be pretty cool. Whose mission is to produce unique creative experiences to inspire community building. She has also served as a theatrical sound designer, arts administrator, and speaker for local and national artists and cultural organizations, amongst a ton of other things that we may or may not get to throughout the course of the interview.

  [00:03:52] Sidney Evans: So, without further ado, I'd like to introduce the panel. The guest for today, Casey Lueders. 

  [00:03:59] Kacie Luaders: Hi, Sidney. Thanks for letting me on your show. 

  [00:04:02] Sidney Evans: Absolutely. Thank you for joining. I saw you posted on your LinkedIn that you are in high demand for, for interviews right now. So I would I'm glad you was able to squeeze me in.

  [00:04:10] Kacie Luaders: Oh, no, it's, it's not even, it's, I think it's more of like. Everyone in the summertime Trying to just push everything until fridays and so fridays over the summer I'm, just talking to people all day. So very happy that we're doing this on. What is this a wednesday on a wednesday? It is I was 

  [00:04:30] Sidney Evans: gonna say this is a wednesday So hopefully you're in better spirits than all the friday interviews.

  [00:04:34] Sidney Evans: It seems for some reason Like you just mentioned most of the ones you do on Friday. It seems everybody's scheduling on Wednesdays for me. So I feel like it's a good, you know, you kind of over the, the, the reality of the beginning of the week, but you're not checked out enough towards the end of the week.

  [00:04:50] Sidney Evans: So I feel like Wednesday is a good day. So I feel like I'm getting the best interviews out there. So hopefully this will stand out a little more than, than all the other podcasts, but As I mentioned in the intro, you, you have done a lot of amazing things specifically to audio and, but from a creative capacity as well.

  [00:05:07] Sidney Evans: So just wanted to kind of first start off, like start off early, like what was, what was young Casey like, and then how your educational experience and things kind of led up to you. like going to college at Hampton and eventually Savannah Arts and Design and kind of focused on like audio, music, sound design, all that type of stuff.

  [00:05:26] Kacie Luaders: Absolutely. So young Casey was a total weirdo, which probably should come as a surprise to no one, but I always loved music. I have seen old VHS tapes of me when I could like barely sit up, but I was trying to like, Crawl towards the family record player or the tape player. Cause I'm just like, what is that?

  [00:05:50] Kacie Luaders: Like, how is that making these sounds? So yeah, I started piano lessons when I was five, wasn't very good. Started guitar lessons when I was 10, wasn't very good. Switched to bass when I was 14. Also the pattern continues. So I wanted to be in music. I wanted to, I wanted to tour with groups. I wanted to eventually in high school when like kind of the big superstar producers, the Pharrell's, the Timbaland's, like were getting more attention.

  [00:06:21] Kacie Luaders: I wanted to be a music producer. And so I went to college for music recording technology. Cause I'm like, yes, I too can do this, but you have to have talent. to succeed in the music industry, everyone. Piece of advice number one. And so I quickly learned I'm not a music producer. I'm not a musician.

  [00:06:43] Kacie Luaders: I'm not good at this, but I love sound. I love audio. And so I quickly moved to learning more about the engineering side. And through a series of bizarre events the music department at Hampton was in the same building as the theater department. And someone was just like, Hey, you're in the music program, right?

  [00:07:02] Kacie Luaders: If you ever want to come and learn about like sound design for the theater, we're always looking for people to do sound. Like no one in our department wants to do sound for some reason. And so I was like, okay, we'll see what that is. And that was really my first Oh, you don't have to do music to work in audio, but you can still be creative and you can still create, you know, emotions and, and support stories.

  [00:07:28] Kacie Luaders: And so that for me was my first like, Oh, I can be good at something in audio. It just doesn't have to be music. 

  [00:07:36] Sidney Evans: So after your, like, after your time in college and going through that experience, like, what, what was the process like for you, like, find transitioning into the working world? Like, was it easy?

  [00:07:45] Sidney Evans: Did you have an opportunity right out? You kind of have to, you know, grind your way, like, do this on the side while you work to provide for yourself. I know a few of our guests, including myself, kind of had to be able to, do multiple things at once to try to, you know, keep the dream going. So what was that like for you?

  [00:08:01] Kacie Luaders: Sure. So when I graduated, I mean, I was still a pretty stupid 22, 23 year old. So I ended up moving back home and I was working in the box office at a museum back in Michigan, the Henry Ford museum. And I wasn't sure what my next move was going to be in audio. This is 2010 at this point. So we're just coming out of like crazy recession and graduating with a music degree and a theater minor was not the move at the time.

  [00:08:32] Kacie Luaders: So I'm just kind of like, Oh, I don't know what's happening. So I decided to go back to grad school, which as you mentioned, went to Savannah College of Art and Design in Savannah. And that was really. where I had to like focus up like real fast. Like undergrad was a hot mess. Grad school it is no like, maybe I'm not gonna go to class today because I party too hard.

  [00:08:56] Kacie Luaders: It's like, no you're going to miss so much stuff if you don't show up. So I was showing up, I was learning from Professors who were adult, peers who I, in another space, like might have been intimidated by, but because we were classmates and peers, you know, being able to see that I could compete with these folks it was just a huge confidence boost.

  [00:09:20] Kacie Luaders: And so I would say it wasn't really until after I graduated from grad school that I had both the confidence and the desire to actually like push and figure out what I wanted to do. What I thought I wanted to do when I finished was I thought I wanted to work in film location sound. So I moved to Atlanta in 2013 and I did get on a few sets here, a few like commercial sets, like the Children's Hospital, a few, like, web series, and I'm booming and, you know, doing these long days on set and quickly learned.

  [00:09:53] Kacie Luaders: I kind of hated that too. So, that was another step in the figuring out what I didn't want to do journey. Cause yeah, you got to be on those sets at like four or five in the morning and then you're just there all day long. Anywho. So yeah, eventually I started actually telling people here in Atlanta that I had a master's in sound design and, you know, I had some interest in theater and I'd done some live theater in undergrad, started getting a few internships, apprenticeships, and eventually, I think it was 2016, 2017, got my first professional.

  [00:10:29] Kacie Luaders: live theater sound design job at the Georgia Ensemble Theater in Roswell, Georgia. And from there, my career was like, half still doing kind of like, admin for arts organizations to like, pay the bills, and then doing theater. Live theater sound design throughout theaters in Atlanta. 

  [00:10:53] Sidney Evans: Do you still do like live stuff at all?

  [00:10:56] Sidney Evans: I would assume you have transitioned, maybe have transitioned, if not completely or close to completely. 

  [00:11:00] Kacie Luaders: Close to completely. I think what is going to be my last professional show here in Atlanta is a show called The Wash, which is at the Impact Theater right now. And I'm going to be doing some stuff at Emory, but yes, I am close to emory.

  [00:11:15] Kacie Luaders: com. being fully finished with theatrical sound design. 

  [00:11:19] Sidney Evans: You don't think you'll like, once you officially retire, like there's always the urge, like people will reach out to you like, yeah, we got this opportunity. Would you ever consider like, if it's like, Such an amazing opportunity. There's like, there's no way I can turn this down.

  [00:11:31] Sidney Evans: Would you consider it under them circles under those circumstances? 

  [00:11:34] Kacie Luaders: It is a possibility. That's kind of how I'm back this year. I didn't do it. I didn't do any shows last year in 2023 because I was like, yeah, I'm done. I did two shows in 2022 just because everything had been, you know, shut down and people were just starting to like reach back out again.

  [00:11:51] Kacie Luaders: But yeah, it's just, it's a different type of time commitment than podcasting. I would say like, we can do so much virtually with podcasting. With live theater, you have to be in the space. You have to be at the rehearsal. You have to go to the, you know, and so doing that in addition to doing podcasting, it's just like never stop working life, which I'm no longer about as I am continuing my journey into my 30s.

  [00:12:21] Kacie Luaders: So, Yeah. 

  [00:12:23] Sidney Evans: Yeah. And we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna get into, obviously there's that when you're young and you kind of. You gotta, like, you really gotta hustle, you know, there's a season for us, like, you just gotta try to get as much done as possible, whether it's, you know, working two jobs or, you know, pulling all nighters or, you know, kind of doing what you gotta do to get your foot in the door.

  [00:12:43] Sidney Evans: But then there's a transition to when you, when you start getting a little bit older that you, you gotta strike more of a balance. And it's not about, like, not wanting to do the work. Is that so you're. In the right space to do it efficiently and effectively. And I'll, I'll touch on that a little bit more as we get, you know, a little further in your story, but I do want to back up and kind of transition it to where you were doing the admin art stuff to, you know, to make a living and you were doing live sound design, live stuff.

  [00:13:15] Sidney Evans: When did. Podcasting come on your radar and, 

  [00:13:19] Kacie Luaders: you know, I've, I've heard about podcasts and, you know, I had friends from, you know, the sound design program who were starting to jump into podcasts and really they were the ones who were telling me like, you know, circa 2016, 2017, like, you know, this podcast and stuff, like, it's going to be really big.

  [00:13:35] Kacie Luaders: It's going to explode. And I'm not someone who listens to a lot of stuff for recreation, right? Because, you know, we always got the cans on, I'm always doing something. I wasn't listening to podcasts at the time. I was like, okay, whatever. So in 2019, one of the artistic directors at a theater that I've worked for before, basically just shot me a DM and was like, Hey I don't know if you do podcasts, but Spotify is doing this thing for women of color to like, basically workshop and learn about podcasting.

  [00:14:11] Kacie Luaders: And, you know, if this is something you're interested in, like. You should, you should try it. So I applied again. I didn't know what I was doing or talking about, but fortunately I would say because of my audio background, I did get in. And so in, I want to say it was August of 2019. went out to the Spotify headquarters in New York.

  [00:14:33] Kacie Luaders: It was myself and nine other women. We just kind of learned like crash course about so much about podcasting and kind of workshops and idea for a pilot for one of our own shows. But yeah, I came back home and was like, okay, cool. That's a great thing for. me to know at some point and went back to my day gig and didn't think about it until 2020.

  [00:15:00] Sidney Evans: So maybe like a year later was when you were like, okay, I'm going to apply what I learned at this accelerator and try to attempt to create something. So, so what was that first thing? Cause a lot of times in people's stories, cause I'm, I'm, I'm a big junkie. I'm like, you know biographies, documentaries, like learning the process of how people got to, To where they were.

  [00:15:21] Sidney Evans: And interestingly enough, like. The thing that you, that they blew up on is usually not the first, their first attempt at whether it's somebody who's the home of a record label, they might've signed the act that didn't sell anything, but you never heard about it. So you think, you know, like the, the crisscrosses and the TLCs, like you, you hear about them and you're like, Oh, okay.

  [00:15:43] Sidney Evans: This is their, like the first act that they signed and it blew up. It was like, nah, they probably had a lot of, Smaller X that didn't work out and we're just weren't aware of it. But now because things not because they're successful, we think, okay, they just jumped to it and it just went from, from A to Z just like that.

  [00:16:01] Sidney Evans: So what was the first thing that you produced and was that in fact, the first thing that kind of got you on the radar once you made that transition in a podcast? 

  [00:16:10] Kacie Luaders: Sure. So the first original podcast that I made was like a three episode limited series thing that, so just to kind of step back a little bit, 2020, April 2020 got laid off from my full time day gig because of the pandemic.

  [00:16:30] Kacie Luaders: And then at the time I was on like maybe four theater shows, and of course everything shut down. So I literally had nothing to do sitting in the house. But my, my alma mater, SCAD, they put out a call to do a virtual, like, alumni fellowship, basically. And they were like, you know, we can run this fellowship, but, you know, we can't go on campus.

  [00:16:55] Kacie Luaders: So if someone has an idea, an alum for an art project or a media project that can be done virtually, you know, you should apply. And during this time, you know, in addition to pandemic, this was also the summer of, you know, the racial reckoning sitting in the house all day watching that. It was just like, I, I, I would like to do some sort of project about this.

  [00:17:22] Kacie Luaders: And so my pitch to them was a podcast called White Angle, where I had a white documentarian who had made a film about some sort of Black injustice. So you know, whether it was, you know something that happened in the past, something that was current and I paired them with a black filmmaker and it was basically just a time for them to have a discussion.

  [00:17:46] Kacie Luaders: The black filmmaker will watch the white filmmaker's movie and they could just have a conversation because my. I guess theory was if you're in that world and making a film, but you're not of that culture, you do definitely have a perspective as an artist. But what kind of like conversation can we have about it?

  [00:18:10] Kacie Luaders: Like no name calling, no shade, as just people to really like dive into what being a storyteller about a culture that you don't belong to actually means. And it was chill. Everyone was respectful. Everyone was, you know, walked away, hopefully, feeling like, oh yes, this was a great conversation to have. So it was done sort of like an academic project, in a way.

  [00:18:36] Kacie Luaders: Wasn't released widely. It was just on like a little standalone website But that was the first thing where I actually was like I have an idea. I'm gonna pitch my idea I'm gonna find people to cast in this idea. I'm going to edit it. I'm going to publish it. That was my first podcast 

  [00:18:55] Sidney Evans: Okay, so a word that's standing out to me is pitch.

  [00:19:00] Sidney Evans: So a lot of times I just creatives focus more on the creative and the technical. And obviously there's a lot of writing involved, but that's kind of, you know, working in the thing. But the pitching part is like, A whole different beast in itself. And I don't know if the stars just aligned for you properly or what, but it seems like once you enter things, once you have to apply for things, like it just works out for you.

  [00:19:29] Sidney Evans: So is there something in particular that you learned or that you found particularly helpful? That has assisted you when you are presenting your pitches that are getting the responses and the in the leading to the opportunities or is it I don't know just a like your knack for storytelling there obviously there's something there that you have that Other people who could benefit from a learning about or you highlighting.

  [00:19:53] Sidney Evans: So I'm curious to know for myself, but I'm sure the listeners are curious to know as well. Like what, what is it about pitching that makes you stand out from the crowd? 

  [00:20:04] Kacie Luaders: So I would say pitching is definitely. It's a little art, it's a little science, it's a lot of luck. For every successful thing that I have pitched or every successful program I've gotten into, I guarantee you there were 10 or 15 rejections that I got beforehand or at the same time.

  [00:20:25] Kacie Luaders: So what I'm learning with audio specifically is I try to figure out, first of all, who am I talking to and if they were to give me money support a platform. How is this going to benefit them the most? Because I mean, real talk, no one's going to give you anything unless they're going to get something from it.

  [00:20:47] Kacie Luaders: And then the second thing that I typically try to do is I try to like, if I come up with an idea, I try to just do, you know, a little quick little Google and see what other people have done about the same topic and then try to go in a direction that hasn't been approached before. 

  [00:21:06] Sidney Evans: You got to come over.

  [00:21:06] Sidney Evans: You kind of try to come through the, it's like a guerrilla warfare. 

  [00:21:10] Kacie Luaders: Yeah. A little bit. Like you 

  [00:21:12] Sidney Evans: kind of see where like, okay, this, this is what they're expecting. So let me go off of that. 

  [00:21:17] Kacie Luaders: A little bit. I've never thought of as a guerrilla warfare, but I mean, I guess in some ways, yes. You know, you don't want to pitch something that already exists, but I also, you know, some people, a lot of people say like, Oh, we don't need any more podcasts about this because.

  [00:21:31] Kacie Luaders: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're already, you know, a hundred, a thousand out there. I believe that everyone's individual perspective is so important. And so if you find a subject or a topic that like everybody's already talking about, figuring out how to approach it from your unique perspective and in a way that other people aren't approaching it, You just have to kind of like carve that space for yourself within a given topic or a genre.

  [00:22:01] Kacie Luaders: And so yeah, figuring out how to do that is probably my next thing. And then I will say, you know, just trying to, I, I realize if there's something with like applications and you got to write essay questions and, you know, people don't want to read a lot. So how can you say, What you want to say to grab the attention, to make the point as concisely as possible, I would say is a big thing to figure out because they, they not trying to read a lot.

  [00:22:36] Sidney Evans: But the editing is the most important part. Like you, you like in order to make it concise and it's not just word vomit and, you know, make sure you're not overusing words or whatever. Like if you, you don't have to be the greatest at. The original idea, but if you edit it very well, you can present yourself in a much better light is for somebody to absorb it and be concise and not check out what I'm reading.

  [00:23:02] Sidney Evans: And so I did want to share that, but you also mentioned carving a space for yourself. So. We're going to jump ahead to You Heard Me Right, which is, you mentioned your, your first production, but I think, feel like this one is the kind of the one that was like, okay, I got something. It was, it was accepted and appreciated more widely than the first show you mentioned, which was White Angle, you said?

  [00:23:24] Kacie Luaders: That is correct. 

  [00:23:26] Sidney Evans: Okay. So you explain like the, the, the idea for you heard me, right, the process and like, I guess the accolades, the reception that you got from it. And what was it like, you know, navigating all, you know, from the, from conception to the production to putting it out and marketing it and, and.

  [00:23:46] Sidney Evans: You know, allowing people to consume it to where it was appreciated. 

  [00:23:48] Kacie Luaders: Sure. So, yes, as I mentioned being a part of the Spotify SoundUp Accelerator we all developed a pitch for a show, a podcast, and pitched that at the end of the program. And so the top four pitches in my cohort received funding to make a pilot episode of their show.

  [00:24:10] Kacie Luaders: We were not one of those top four. So again, it was just kind of like, oh, this is great, you know, great experience and opportunity. Maybe at some point I'll do this show, but, you know, back to reality. So this was another sitting in the house. 2020, like when I had gotten back from the program, you know, I said, you know, I'm going to try to make this eventually.

  [00:24:32] Kacie Luaders: So I got a couple of my friends together, did a very bare bones, like scratch version demo of what You Heard Me Right could be. And I put it away for months. Didn't do any editing. Didn't tell anybody. It was just like, okay, whatever. So yeah, I'm sitting in the house. So I was like, well, you know, edit this.

  [00:24:52] Kacie Luaders: I'll send it back to the folks at Spotify from the program. Really, I was just looking for notes. Cause I, again, I don't know what a podcast was. And this was actually even before White Angle started. So I literally was like, just bored coming up with ideas at the same time and things started going in production later that year.

  [00:25:13] Kacie Luaders: But yeah, sent the demo and somebody got back to me and was like, Oh, we like it. Like, you know, we want to pick it up. But, we're shut down for doing productions because, you know, pandemic. And so they were like, if you can figure out how to do it then sure, we'll distribute it. So, I think I would say a lot of my training in theater came in handy with the figuring out how to do it part.

  [00:25:41] Kacie Luaders: The show You Heard Me Write, it is, a art making podcast where we have groups of three working on a project together anonymously. And then they come together and talk about it live for the first time on the show. And when we knew that at the time, we couldn't just like bring groups of people into a recording studio because pandemic.

  [00:26:06] Kacie Luaders: And so basically I was like, if we can't figure out how to do this Everybody 10 feet away, but y'all got to remember this is 2020. like June, July, when just everything was popping in the whole thick of it. We didn't know what was going on. I was like, if we can't figure out how to do this safely, like I'm not doing it.

  [00:26:28] Kacie Luaders: And so it was a combination of like my team, myself, and then Spotify for actually letting us like do it, whatever. Like, okay. So we found an Airbnb outside of Atlanta. We set up. mics and everything like outside in the backyard and We have people come in like straight through the the the backyard we recorded the episode like the first season you hear all the because You can't you can't edit that out.

  [00:26:58] Sidney Evans: I want to I want to I want to pause because I want to I want to Highlight something. It's interesting how sometimes like, where there's lack of resources or the particular circumstances you in allow you to be more creative than you maybe would have otherwise. So just think about, for example, like the creation of hip hop is like, okay, well black people live in the city, in the city.

  [00:27:19] Sidney Evans: Like we can't, we don't know none of us how to play instruments. And even if we did, we don't have access to the actual instruments to get everybody to come in and record, do all this type of stuff. So it was like, okay, well, we're just going to. You know, we all, all our parents have all these soul and funk records.

  [00:27:35] Sidney Evans: We're just going to sample them and then just add our twist to it. And you, within that, they birthed like the most popular genre of music that everybody thought was a fad, but look at it now. So the fact that you were able to, Be creative to be able to get it recorded and done outside. And then you can hear the ambience that sets a whole different tone and move to it, then if you're in the studio and it's just silent cause that kind of creates more realism.

  [00:28:00] Sidney Evans: It kind of puts you in the space more, it's more immersive. So I'm sure. That added an element that wouldn't have been there otherwise had it, you know, it not been pandemic if it would have been under no concessional circumstances. So I just wanted to add that. Sorry to interrupt you. You may continue. 

  [00:28:16] Kacie Luaders: Oh, no, you're fine.

  [00:28:16] Kacie Luaders: I was just gonna say like, that's definitely like what I meant by like, I think a lot of the live theater kicked in because there's zero money in theater. Like, you will be poor, everyone listening, if you go into theater. And so that's kind of what I was used to. I was used to working with shoestring budgets.

  [00:28:34] Kacie Luaders: I was used to, you know, people like, well, we can't afford this prop. So we're just going to have to take this thing and stick a feather on it. And imagine that it's a chick, you know, that's kind of. A lot of the approach that I bring to my podcasting, which in some ways is like bad, you're not supposed to approach your stuff with a scarcity mentality, but you know, it's more of like a, a resourcefulness to your point of having to figure out how to make it happen.

  [00:29:02] Kacie Luaders: One day I would like to not have to do that. So if anyone just wants to like write me checks to do things, I will accept that. 

  [00:29:09] Sidney Evans: An unlimited budget would be preferred. But we can make it work otherwise. 

  [00:29:13] Kacie Luaders: Exactly. Exactly. Like I, I would not complain, but yep, figuring it out. Somehow is a, a superpower of many creatives.

  [00:29:23] Sidney Evans: Okay. So was that what led you to, you know, get all this like media and news coverage and stuff like, cause I know you've been, you've been highlighted in a lot of things, you know, me being, you know, the, the curious and wanted to be as most prepared host that I can be had to do my research prior and you have been highlighted in, in a lot of publications, platforms, as I mentioned earlier, you're highly requested guest.

  [00:29:48] Sidney Evans: for other podcasts as well as this one. Is there something that was our area of emphasis that you wanted to get PR and coverage on the type of stuff that you're doing or, or did it kind of happen organically? 

  [00:30:00] Kacie Luaders: I would say it was probably a combination of just the fact that it was like a Spotify show that certainly didn't hurt with the fact that it was something that was kind of.

  [00:30:11] Kacie Luaders: weird and different. And so if nothing else, I think people maybe checked it out to be like, what is this? So, yeah, I think it was, it was a combination of factors. But really in some ways, I was just happy to again, go from, I have an idea to we're going to make the thing to we're going to put it out.

  [00:30:35] Kacie Luaders: And then all the other stuff that came after was like bonus. But actually figuring out how to do it, I think, was the highlight for me. 

  [00:30:45] Sidney Evans: There's no other way to do it, but to do it. So to fast forward a little bit to what you have going on now. Could be pretty cool. Was this during the time you heard me, right?

  [00:30:55] Sidney Evans: Was this idea that you had at all? Like, were you kind of making those, putting it away, coming back to it? Or was it something like, okay, I'm done with this. I've, I've squeezed as much out of the spot of I produced, you heard me, right. And it's time to move on to the next thing. Or was it something that you had kind of laid a, a, a soft foundation for, and you knew that it would be something that a time will come where you have to focus on it.

  [00:31:21] Kacie Luaders: Yeah. Great question. Definitely more of the soft foundation. I went to a panel in Atlanta of like women in tech. I went for the free food but I actually listened to the panel and all of them said something like, you know, while you have your full time job, that's when you work on your side hustle.

  [00:31:38] Kacie Luaders: Like don't be quitting your full time job to like go ahead first into the thing that's going to make you poor and unhappy all the time, like build alongside your whatever. And so I was like, Oh, that's a good point. I don't actually have a side hustle and I don't know if I want one, but I should probably have one.

  [00:31:55] Kacie Luaders: I think, I think I'll start one. So yeah, I think December. of 2019 is when I actually like registered like my LLC. And again, I did not know what it was going to be, but I was like, Oh, this could, this could be pretty cool. That's what it's called now. So I had the bones in place to be structured, you know, again, as an LLC, I did the business bank account.

  [00:32:19] Kacie Luaders: So I on paper was a business, which once I did get laid off in April 2020. And once things started happening, it almost was kind of like perfect timing because the, even the program that I worked or that where I was a fellow at scad, my school, they were like, Oh, you know, Do you have an LLC in order to provide, you know, funding and support?

  [00:32:44] Kacie Luaders: You have to be an LLC. And I was like, Oh, I just happened to kind of have one of those, I guess. And so it really wasn't until around the time all of this was happening where I was like, Oh, I should probably like have a website. I should probably start getting the handles on the social places. So it was a lot of building the parachute after I'd already kind of jumped out.

  [00:33:08] Kacie Luaders: And, you know, to your point, after 2020, 2021, 2022, the opportunities started not being as plentiful. I will say now I have this thing that I still own that I now have some projects under. And so it was time to figure out how to actually leverage this into a business. 

  [00:33:31] Sidney Evans: Okay. So yeah, it's highlight the, as far as like the, how you laid it out to actually be a sustainable business breakdown.

  [00:33:39] Sidney Evans: What exactly is like the mission and the goal for could be pretty cool. And, well, I guess in explaining the, the, the mission you'll get into the. Fusion of the audio storytelling and data analytics, which I'm extremely curious about because that world is a bit unfamiliar to me as far as combining the audio in the, in the data.

  [00:33:59] Sidney Evans: So could you break it down? 

  [00:34:01] Kacie Luaders: Sure. So, yes, initially the mission was like. keep letting corporate media people write us checks to make our own stuff, but that was not a sustainable business plan. And so what we do now primarily is we work on podcasts for organizations. So we're working on a podcast for Bard College, which is in upstate New York working on podcasts for nonprofit organizations.

  [00:34:30] Kacie Luaders: And we really sort of shifted our business focus from just like, let's make Casey's creative projects to let's figure out how to make podcasts a way for organizations to tell stories about their organization, collect research, and. Data about their organizations, but then to be able to share that out in a way that isn't just like we wrote this report that's in a PDF on our website.

  [00:34:57] Kacie Luaders: We're making data driven content. And so that's right now. The what keeps the lights on piece, but we also now have. an in house podcast we produce, Could Be Pretty Cool News, which is a podcast that's all about creative entrepreneurship on the journey that we were on, that we're still on. Just met so many fascinating people, graphics people writers.

  [00:35:22] Kacie Luaders: People who do styling and fashion. And everyone has like a different story, but a similar story when it comes to trying to stay creative and trying to stay in tune with like what's happening artistically, but also trying to figure out how to write invoices and contracts and do taxes. And so the entire premise of the show is just talking to folks either who are experts in the creator economy, academics, people who, you know, work in like ecosystem building spaces where they're collaborating with a bunch of creators, and then also telling narrative stories of different creators and how they got started, what they're doing, their views on just how this life can be sustainable for us all maybe one day.

  [00:36:15] Kacie Luaders: And so that's like the, the passion project that I'm really enjoying right now. That's led to different opportunities. I wouldn't say from the podcast itself necessarily. We have a very modest audience, but people who do tune in, you know, or know that it exists can say like, hey, can you come teach this workshop?

  [00:36:36] Kacie Luaders: Or, hey, can you come, you know, do this other thing? So. It's been okay. It's been fine. 

  [00:36:42] Sidney Evans: So that's, that's, that's amazing. Two things I think is I'm, I'm glad you like, like this podcast obviously is hiding, highlighting black men and women in the audio space. Specifically yours is more broad from creators in general, which I'm glad because, you know, could be pretty cool.

  [00:36:57] Sidney Evans: News, you need to cover it. Okay. You need somebody who can do graphic design. Obviously you have the audio chops and, and I had the audio chop. So, you know, we cover a large portion of that in itself, but people have a background in marketing. You have to market the podcast and not even just with our platforms.

  [00:37:16] Sidney Evans: Whatever business you're doing, like you can't, you have to be a media company now, like you're going to have to have a creative storytelling aspect of your company now to select, to merge them, to have all those people intertwined in one environment, one setting. I feel like it's beneficial for all.

  [00:37:33] Sidney Evans: And then also a lot of the times, like you're so immersed in your particular field, like you kind of everything is just like on your feet in your field. So you're that's the world that you live in. You're seeing all of that. But then you have to step out. It was okay. Well, if you're in constantly in that world, like everybody kind of knows, you know, The same stuff to a certain extent, you got to step outside and connect with people outside of that, because that's where you can present a lot of your value because they aren't as familiar with that world.

  [00:38:03] Sidney Evans: So it's, it's a learning tool for them. And it's an, it's a teaching opportunity for you and vice versa. If you step out to another world, whether it's, I don't know, finance or. Let's just stick with finance. You go outside of that, obviously, as someone who has their own LOC and their own company, that stuff is very important because the Uncle Sam don't play.

  [00:38:23] Sidney Evans: So you, you, you know, you want to manage your money. Well, you make sure you're paying your taxes. You want to make sure you dot your I's and cross all your T's and. You know, by connecting with people in that world, you know, they can provide tips and helpful things. You may not be able to, at a certain point, hire a professional to do all that on its own, but you can gain a lot, a lot of valuable information, whether they have a podcast or in the content that they put out and share on their social media is tips that you can apply to your business.

  [00:38:51] Sidney Evans: So you, you kind of have to expand your horizons and not to kind of just get stuck on the particular field that you're in. So I'm glad you have. Created that. What so, so you're, so you're doing this amazing things with pretty cool and you've got a lot of support. One thing also that you created that I want to highlight really quickly is while the craft quickly explain it and what that experience was.

  [00:39:13] Kacie Luaders: Sure. So Wallercraft is actually the brainchild of one of my frequent creative collaborators, Cooper Skinner, who going back to like white angle, being in a space in the entertainment industry where it's different people, different cultures, working on stories about different people, different cultures.

  [00:39:32] Kacie Luaders: Cooper, who is not a black person, was working on a narrative podcast that was a black. narrative, a Black experience. And there were so many specific settings that were like, you know, a red lobster in the hood or like girls twerking in a parking lot where he was kind of like, what sounds are these? Like what, this isn't something that's in a library.

  [00:39:58] Kacie Luaders: And so I thought it was kind of hilarious, but it also started getting more prevalent storytelling as more diverse stories were being told. It's like, we need these sounds to exist or else we're not going to be able to make this work. And so that's where the idea for Black Walla Pack came from. How can we have sound effects that are accessible and available to everyone?

  [00:40:23] Kacie Luaders: to help tell Black stories. So we spent two days in the studio with eight Atlanta actors and actresses, actors, I think everybody's just actors now, and we just were putting them through different scenarios. So it's like, you know, praising, catching the Holy Ghost in church and go, or, you know, at a party, at a restaurant, and just got this really rich sounding Walla that you can tell, like, oh, these are Black people.

  [00:40:53] Kacie Luaders: And so the project is still very much ongoing. Actually, the one play that I mentioned that I did a couple months ago, I used some Black Walla Pack stuff in it. It is a Black narrative. And so, yeah, our hope is to identify other cultures or other ways to capture audio from groups who may not always be represented in stock audio and to have that content available so that hopefully as more of those stories are being told, we'll have the support in post to be able to make them told authentically.

  [00:41:28] Kacie Luaders: So it's wacky, but It's it's necessary 

  [00:41:33] Sidney Evans: Very necessary. I'm, i'm glad you I'm, i'm glad you saw the need for that and made it happen. So it it is available for purchase. How can The sound pack how can how can people purchase it? 

  [00:41:44] Kacie Luaders: Yes you can go to wallacraft. com and yes black wallet pack is there you can download a sample if you want to you know Get, get a little demo first, but yeah, our, our hope and goal with that again, is to start representing folks in audio who often aren't represented right now.

  [00:42:04] Kacie Luaders: So stay tuned. 

  [00:42:07] Sidney Evans: I appreciate you, Kacie. Yeah, we've, we've covered a lot. Highlighted some things. Obviously there's a lot to everyone's story, so we can't hit on everything in particular, but I do appreciate, appreciate you sharing what you have shared. This is another full circle moment for us going back to my introduction to you at, at BlackPodFest, and I'm glad you were able to join, but before we close out.

  [00:42:30] Sidney Evans: But how can people find you on, on, on all the things, the websites, socials, how can they support what you're doing and anything else that you want to highlight that may be upcoming or on the horizon? 

  [00:42:40] Kacie Luaders: Sure thing. So we're at, could be pretty cool on. I mean, I think we're only on IG and thread sometimes but LinkedIn very active on there.

  [00:42:50] Kacie Luaders: Could be pretty cool. com. If you happen to be going to podcast movement in August I'll be around, but yeah, always looking for folks to chat with. And as Sidney mentioned, if I see opportunities that I think. a creator could benefit from. I just slap it, slap it on up on my, my stories. Cause that's how so many things that I have received have come to me.

  [00:43:18] Kacie Luaders: Somebody sliding a DM or somebody just posting. And so I think paying it forward is definitely the move. So yeah. 

  [00:43:25] Sidney Evans: All right. Yeah. Make sure you all go check out what she has going on. All things could be pretty cool and beyond. Once again, thank you, Casey. I appreciate you joining me for today's episode.

  [00:43:37] Sidney Evans: For those listening, I will catch you on the next episode. Super appreciative to anyone who's listened to this episode or previous episodes. And yeah, I'll catch you on the next one.

  [00:43:52] Sidney Evans: Thank you for joining us on today's episode. Please don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave us a review. If you'd like to work with me or connect, please go to soundbysaid. com and schedule a call there. You can also check out the full list of productions I've worked on. If you'd like to connect on social media, my handle is soundbysid. com on Twitter and Instagram, and I'm Sidney Evans on LinkedIn. Don't forget to follow. Follow Beyond the Threshold on Instagram as well. I'll catch you on the next episode.

In this episode Beyond the Threshold, host Sidney Evans is joined by Kacie Luaders,  a creator, arts advocate, sound designer and founder of Could Be Pretty Cool.

During this episode, we discuss:

• Her journey from university, to live theatre to podcasting.

• The creation of her first two podcasts, and how a chance DM transformed into a  Spotify workshop experience for women of color.

• How limitations often drive innovation and creative problem-solving.

• The importance of diverse representation in audio and practical strategies for effective podcast marketing.

Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review!